A few questions (CY 12 R/C and others)

[mmarco]

I have recently received my edrumin 10 and am setting it up, it works well and definitely seems better for triggering than my old td10, I however have a few questions that I wonder if you could help me with.

Edge gain
Would it be possible to get "edge scaling" to go below 1.0? In some of my cymbals for a gain needed to get 127 sensitivity of the edge, for a similarly struck bow hit it goes only 70-80. The edge scaling gain seems to be targeted at cases where cymbals report lower gain for the edge but I guess in my case it is the other way around.

CY12 R/C
I have two of these cymbals: if I put them one on each input bow/edge works fine (bell doesn't, which I guess is expected), however if I put them two in one input via a splitter bow/edge does not work reliably anymore and when it is able to distinguish between bow/edge it seems to do it the other way (as in bow is detected as edge and vice versa). This is unlike the two CY-8s I have which instead work perfectly with a splitter.

Always on
Are there issues leaving the edrumin10 always on? or should I turn it off when not in use? Just wondering if leaving permanently running could cause issues with overheating etc.

Firmware update
Currently due to location I can connect to the edrumin direct via the phone app and camera connection kit OR from my PC via a hub (due to distance direct would be a bit too far). Given this I cannot test beta firmware but only the ones available in the ios app, is updating over a hub really a bad idea?

Control input and switch
I have an old mono footpedal/footswitch I wanted to use in the non-hh controller input to trigger a note on (for those super rare songs where having a left foot percussion is useful) however it seems the control application only seems to support footswitches with two buttons (for +/- etc.), could you maybe have a "single footswitch" option also? (unless I missed this of course, in which case apologies). I also assume it is not possible to get the second control input to behave like a normal trigger input (making the module an edrumin 11 I guess, hah)

[Rob]

Edge gain
Would it be possible to get "edge scaling" to go below 1.0? In some of my cymbals for a gain needed to get 127 sensitivity of the edge, for a similarly struck bow hit it goes only 70-80. The edge scaling gain seems to be targeted at cases where cymbals report lower gain for the edge but I guess in my case it is the other way around.

In version 1.4, the scalers go down to 0.5. I haven't updated the iOS version, but I'll get on that today.

CY12 R/C
I have two of these cymbals: if I put them one on each input bow/edge works fine (bell doesn't, which I guess is expected), however if I put them two in one input via a splitter bow/edge does not work reliably anymore and when it is able to distinguish between bow/edge it seems to do it the other way (as in bow is detected as edge and vice versa). This is unlike the two CY-8s I have which instead work perfectly with a splitter.

I have a brand new CY-12C and bell sense works very well using the CY-13R bell sense mode. As for edge sense not working for them set up as a splitter, this is not surprising. Edge sense was designed to work with pads not cymbals. The only reason the option is available for cymbals was because someone pointed out having success with the CY-8.

Always on
Are there issues leaving the edrumin10 always on? or should I turn it off when not in use? Just wondering if leaving permanently running could cause issues with overheating etc.

Shouldn't be a problem. I leave mine on 24/7. The only situation where I would strongly advise turning it of when your done is if you are using external power and are drawing a lot of power from the USB host port.

Firmware update
Currently due to location I can connect to the edrumin direct via the phone app and camera connection kit OR from my PC via a hub (due to distance direct would be a bit too far). Given this I cannot test beta firmware but only the ones available in the ios app, is updating over a hub really a bad idea?

I don't recommend doing it.

Control input and switch
I have an old mono footpedal/footswitch I wanted to use in the non-hh controller input to trigger a note on (for those super rare songs where having a left foot percussion is useful) however it seems the control application only seems to support footswitches with two buttons (for +/- etc.), could you maybe have a "single footswitch" option also? (unless I missed this of course, in which case apologies). I also assume it is not possible to get the second control input to behave like a normal trigger input (making the module an edrumin 11 I guess, hah)

Use the 'sustain' pedal input type and no, its not possible to use a pedal input for pads.

[mmarco]

Hello Rob

thanks for the quick reply!

In version 1.4, the scalers go down to 0.5. I haven't updated the iOS version, but I'll get on that today.

awesome!

I have a brand new CY-12C and bell sense works very well using the CY-13R bell sense mode. As for edge sense not working for them set up as a splitter, this is not surprising. Edge sense was designed to work with pads not cymbals. The only reason the option is available for cymbals was because someone pointed out having success with the CY-8.

thanks for the clarification, in fact the CY-8 (and CY-5) work extremely well in a splitter, edge/bow are detected properly and work extremely reliably. Not sure why bell sense does not work for me, my CY12-R/C are old (bought them when they first came out, they are marked CY12R/C, not CY12C, they have two outputs, one for bell/bow and one for bow/edge, I use the bow/edge one), I wonder if something has changed since then that makes yours work better, oh well, I use them as crashes anyways so no big deal but I was just curious. I have also tried my even older CY12H in a splitter but that worked even worse (as it did not detect the edge at all, just the bow), not sure how it is wired internally and anyways it has been discontinued since forever so I doubt that many are around...

Shouldn't be a problem. I leave mine on 24/7. The only situation where I would strongly advise turning it of when your done is if you are using external power and are drawing a lot of power from the USB host port.

thanks for letting me know, no external power (powering from USB) and nothing connected to the host port

I don't recommend doing it.

will wait for the next iOS update then to get the 1.4 features

Use the 'sustain' pedal input type and no, its not possible to use a pedal input for pads.

ahhh, did not think about using sustain as a type, as I always think sustain is like keyboards piano sustain, as in a continuously variable pedal

thanks again for all your replies and even more for creating such an awesome product!

[Seinsohn]

I have the old CY12-R/C working with bell sense using the cy15R preset with great results! I love hi hat bells.

[mmarco]

I have the old CY12-R/C working with bell sense using the cy15R preset with great results! I love hi hat bells.

thanks for the tip! I switched my cy12-r/c from cy12-c to cy15-r and the bell is detected much much more reliably

[DanielSamson]

Hi!

Today I tried using a CY12C as a ride with bell sense and unfortunately I wasn't able to get the results i was hoping for.

Settings: using the Factory CY12C Preset with some adjustments
Gain: 2-5
Scan Time: 2.5ms
Hold: 5-10ms

Bell Sense: using CY12C mode
Tried everything from 0.50 to 0.85 as bell sense threshold

Problem:
Even when I hit the bow and the bell VERY consistently (same velocity, same spot), I get correct triggers 95% of the time, but i get about 5% wrong triggers.

With Bell Sense on 0.50 i get false bell triggers when hitting the bow and with 0.85 i get false bow triggers hitting the bell.
Something in between like 0.70 gives me the aforementioned result with about 95% accuracy...

Is there anything I can do to improve the reliability of my CY-12C as a ride, or do you recommend changing it for a CY-13R or 15R or anything else for better results?

Or asked more directly: What is the BEST <= 15" ride cymbal pad to use with Edrumin, using only one input?

Thank you,
Daniel

[hang12]

Today I tried using a CY12C as a ride with bell sense and unfortunately I wasn't able to get the results i was hoping for.

I'm using both a CY-12R/C originally from a TD-10 kit and a CY-15R originally from a TD-20 kit - they work about the same as one another, which is pretty well. They are set up next to each other as two rides. No significant misfires or dropouts or anything distracting, they trigger snappily. Each are set up as 'stereo input', just one cable.

For the CY-12R/C:
Bell sense set at 75, as a 'CY-15R',
Gain/thresh/scan/hold at 7.0, 0.9, 2.3, 3.7 respectively.
Edge and Bell are 1.3 and 2.0 respectively. Xtalk set at 3.

I'm not one to pound on my drums, and these have held up well. I don't hit them as hard as crashes.
Hope this helps.

[DanielSamson]

Thank you for the quick answer, I'll check my settings with yours asap!

Are the CY-12R/C and the CY-12C much different?
I tried my CY-12C with Bell sense mode CY-15R and got even more false triggers so I'm surprised you are using it instead of the CY-12C mode.

[Dadwrshpdrum]

Thank you for the quick answer, I'll check my settings with yours asap!

Are the CY-12R/C and the CY-12C much different?
I tried my CY-12C with Bell sense mode CY-15R and got even more false triggers so I'm surprised you are using it instead of the CY-12C mode.

CY12-R/C is different from a CY-12C. The CY-12R/C looks like a CY-13R (exaggerated larger bell playing surface). Also the CY-12R/C would have a switch in the bell with the 2nd Roland cable output, but if you are using bell sense I don’t think that would matter. The small bell playing area may matter.

[hang12]

I tried my CY-12C with Bell sense mode CY-15R and got even more false triggers so I'm surprised you are using it instead of the CY-12C mode.

I probably tried whatever choices were available and went with what worked best at the time. Not sure how interdependent any/all the settings are, and Rob would have to explain why one model label is more suited than another. Maybe at some point I'll re-visit all of the settings to see what I'm missing out on optimizing, but things work well for now. Playing wise the bell portion is physically isolated from the tip/edge triggering and triggers consistently. There is obviously less surface area to work with than the CY-15, but they both play about the same. Again I am only using one dedicated stereo TRS cable connection with one eDRUMin input, i.e. no splitter.
(add) I spent some time just going thru the various Bell setting choices and they all seem to work well enough. I guess maybe the only time that a Bell trigger falls to a Bow trigger, is if you simply let the stick drop on the bell portion. i.e. at really low velocities a bow trigger can occur when hitting the bell portion. But for straight ahead normal hits, they all trigger consistently. I was playing fast steady 16th notes and nothing was jumping off triggering a bell note noticeably. Oddly the CY-8 was the most consistent for the settings I had mentioned above. I boosted the curve slightly (from relatively linear to an upward curve), and everything was even more solidly in the bell or bow camp.
One thing I noticed more so today was that the physical bell of the CY-12R/C and CY-15R are the same size. Just the bow surface area and the edge perimeter offer larger targets. But with the 5 to 7 o'clock strike areas being the most usably sensitive, there isn't a whole lot of difference in optimal striking area between the two size models.