New type of triggers for A2E conversions

[tompasserin]

Hello everyone, Tom from France here

I just ordered an eDrum-in 10 for the purpose of improving my new business. I'm an experienced aerospace engineer, but drumming was first. Aerospace isn't well right now, and won't get any better soon, so I designed and developed my own trigger system. It was initially for my own use but after being advised by friends I'm now launching a small business out of this.

For the moment my products are only available in Europe, but if there's an interest from people anywhere else and in the US in particular I guess I could find a way to ship there

As we're in a DIY forum, I will explain my design. I began with old Roland RT10 triggers more than 10 years ago, and at the time they were great. Then I started playing around with newer Roland V-Drums sets, and better triggering systems, and my RT10s suddenly became junk.
As a drummer I quite liked the center-piezo systems available on the market, mostly cross-bar, for their homogeneous sensing, but as an engineer there were a few issues to me:
- heavy, complex and expensive
- rigid structure needing the use of a dense memory foam cones, the same type as those which wore out pretty quick on my RT10s.

To solve this, I designed a semi-elastic structure, 3D-printed in PLA+carbon fiber, which printing profile and walls thickness depending on the drum size ensure that the sensor is always in contact with the head but that it can withstand shocks and fatigue. Besides that, because it's slightly elastic, I could use very light and highly resilient foams that I expect to last forever.
I think it makes it the lightest, easiest and possibly cheapest A2E conversion I ever saw. Performance is in line with all the cross-bar systems. The design principle is being patented, and I plan on reusing it to trigger cymbals as well in the near future.

You can check out all this at http://www.ovaldrums.com if interested. The website is in construction but it shows enough to understand. There's a Facebook page as well at http://www.facebook.com/ovaldrums, though it's all French for now (but I think FB translates it).

The reason I bought an eDrum-in 10 is the software showing the shape of the trigger signal that I will be able to use to further improve my upcoming designs. The initial development was made with a TD-9, an Alesis IO and an oscilloscope, but I expect the eDrum-in to gather all this in a single box and I'm really looking forward to receiving it. Furthermore, it seems to me that Robert Jonkman started his business in a similar way as what I'm going through right now so I really wanted to support this

I'm not here to sell anything as I don't ship to the US (yet), but willing to gather your reactions and discussions

Thanks !

[Dewaaachner]

Hi,

I like the idea and your Design.
Looks user-friendly and pretty easy to install.
Not sure, how they perform, but I'm sure, the eDrumin will handle it pretty well.

Have you tested already, how a piezo would work on the Bar for picking up Rim signals?
I mean, they are not that difficult to install, but for people who like to buy "completely from one Ressource" it could matter.

Toms don't need Center mounted piezos. Any plans to offer side-mounted ones in one-fits-all-sizes?

Cheers, Frank

[Seinsohn]

Very cool design. I was surprised to see the way you connect the jack. Why not just use a 3.5mm cable to go through the vent hole and then connect a 3.5mm to 1/4 inch adapter?

[tompasserin]

Hi,

I like the idea and your Design.
Looks user-friendly and pretty easy to install.
Not sure, how they perform, but I'm sure, the eDrumin will handle it pretty well.

Have you tested already, how a piezo would work on the Bar for picking up Rim signals?
I mean, they are not that difficult to install, but for people who like to buy "completely from one Ressource" it could matter.

Toms don't need Center mounted piezos. Any plans to offer side-mounted ones in one-fits-all-sizes?

Cheers, Frank

Hey Frank, thanks for your feedback !
They perform pretty well with my TD-9, much better than RT10s and because they're internal they don't need to be readjusted whatsoever. Another thing I didn't mention is that, in addition to the non-rigid frame, the piezo itself is "floating", it also has foam on the frame side, albeit much thinner than the cone. The foam on the frame only covers an external ring of the piezo, therefore the center of it is "free-floating". This makes it somehow relative measuring and not absolute, taking the foam cone compression out of the performance equation. That makes it very robust when setting it up as it doesn't require to be adjusted perfectly to perform well.

Regarding the rim, the "D" version (https://ovaldrums.com/en/Shop/#!/HT01-D ... category=0) already is equipped with a second piezo under the "ear" on the upper-right part of the frame. The ear comes with the right angle to fit the drum diameter and a thin foam on the piezo makes it sense the inner part of the drum as if it were stuck to it, but without the need to actually sticking it as it comes with the frame. It is also very close to the lug screws as those transmit most of the rim vibrations.

As for the toms, I find that center piezo is still better than rim piezo even though it makes less difference than for the snare. Besides that, the outer part of the frame is also shaped with the radius of the drum so that you dont squeeze and break the plastic when tightening the lug screws, therefore it doesn't make much difference to put the piezo in the center from the moment you need to have a specific frame for each drum diameter. I'm designing shorter ones to further reduce the muffling effect in case of use with acoustic heads, but those will still be slightly specific for each drum size because of the external radius of the frame.

Very cool design. I was surprised to see the way you connect the jack. Why not just use a 3.5mm cable to go through the vent hole and then connect a 3.5mm to 1/4 inch adapter?

Thanks ! The reason I stick with this type of small connector is that I didn't want any wire flying around, and I also wanted the loads when connecting or disconnecting the 1/4 jack to be withstood by something else than the sensor wire. Therefore I designed an external lug as an adapter. That lug sticks to the drum with strong double-sided tape and you can therefore connect and disconnect the 1/4 without risking to pull the sensor wire and break something. All this is designed to be as durable as possible, which includes being able to carry the drums around without having to care much about wires or connectors or require any adjustment. With the lug being there for this purpose, I'm not fitting 3.5mm connectors in between as they are more expensive and because the 1/4 sockets to fit the lug come with soldering pads, so that I need soldering anyway. Hope this makes sense

[Dewaaachner]

Hi Tom, looks like you already paid a lot attention to details.

Very well done.

[MWJT42]

Really nice modern design, and seems simple to fit.

I would have been interested in these for my build, except for 2 things that you might wish to consider:

The mounted jack box really puts me off. Stealth builds are important for many edrummers. Can you supply a connector to shell mounted jack socket adapter instead? (like the 3.5mm to 1/4 Jockeby use)

Also, surely modifying this design to be side triggers would be a really simple alteration? I only considered side mounting for toms to eliminate hot spots - although eDRUMin is excellent at eliminating these, but most people still use inferior modules! Hotspots are a huge consideration for most edrummers, and side triggers are the obvious solution for non-positional sensing drums.

[Mylo]

The mounted jack box really puts me off. Stealth builds are important for many edrummers. Can you supply a connector to shell mounted jack socket adapter instead? (like the 3.5mm to 1/4 Jockeby use)

+1 for this. I like all the electronics hidden nicely in the drum. Having wires coming out of the port attaching to a box I have to stick to my beautiful drum is a turn off for me as well. I feel converting the port to an input jack is a more robust approach especially if the drums are moved from gig to gig.

I do like the overall concept though. You may be on to something here.

[tompasserin]

Really nice modern design, and seems simple to fit.

I would have been interested in these for my build, except for 2 things that you might wish to consider:

The mounted jack box really puts me off. Stealth builds are important for many edrummers. Can you supply a connector to shell mounted jack socket adapter instead? (like the 3.5mm to 1/4 Jockeby use)

Also, surely modifying this design to be side triggers would be a really simple alteration? I only considered side mounting for toms to eliminate hot spots - although eDRUMin is excellent at eliminating these, but most people still use inferior modules! Hotspots are a huge consideration for most edrummers, and side triggers are the obvious solution for non-positional sensing drums.

Thanks for this
Here's my two cents on that, but your points are indeed interesting!
The first reason the jack is in an external kind of lug is that I designed these to remain there no matter what type of head you are playing, so the vent hole has to remain available. The second reason is that I did not want to permanently modify the drums. Many people who own high-end drums would not want to modify them. Sadly the 100% stealth jack either requires to drill an additional hole for it, or to block the original vent hole, which was not part of the plan. But I could indeed supply "permanently mounted" sets for those who don't care about making the conversion permanent!

The other thing I'm designing right now is a different type of jack lug, including a vent hole. It would be diffently shaped and taped directly above the vent hole, not blocking it but embedding the jack so that there's absolutely no visible wires on the outside. The only thing is that it won't work for instance with Tama drums as they stick a label around the vent hole with the serial number and you wouldn't want to cover that with the lug I guess...

Regarding the hot-spot, I know it's a potential issue and side-mounted triggers solve it. I could, and I will indeed design side-mounted triggers as well, mainly for those who use them exclusively with acoustic heads as the side-mounted would provide less muffling. But a feature to consider about using a non-rigid structure and light foam is that the hot-spot effect is much lighter than with rigid, crossbar-mounted piezos, that helps. I guess I designed the tom triggers with the center mounted piezo because I really didn't like how my RT10 were not bringing homogeneous sensing and I must admit that I like better when the sensor is in the center for any kind of drum except the kick drum. But hey, I'm happy with those I made for myself, now I should consider what the other users want, so the side-mounted ones shall come soon

[MWJT42]

Cool, yeah additional options of stealth and side triggers is exactly what I was thinking, not changing what you've already designed.

We shall be watching your career with great interest...

Keep us posted!

[AKA Wayne]

Pretty innovative design here. Wondering how well positional sensing and hot spot suppression works. In my experience a more rigid design makes for better ps and HSS with the edrumin. I’ve used the quartz trigger which has a similar non rigid design and I’ve found my diy cake pans to trigger better with the edrumin.
I know this is meant for more than just the edrumin though so maybe that is not as much of a concern.