Quest for the ultimate Hi-hat "feel"

[Gemini8026]

So here's where I am at.

I have tried :
Roland FD-8 (Many of us have tried, it is what it is)

Yamaha RHH-135 (weak IMO)

Roland VH-11 - (At the time I tried it, I had issues integrating into my VST's. It was heavy and I never had a proper stand with adjustable spring. I would hit the pad and the position would change causing transmute issues)

Pintech Stand mount controller (I liked this one, but I couldnt dial it in perfectly)

Roland FD-9 (What I am currently using. It works great, has good sensitivity, and likely the best pedal only option)

Goedrum controller (at the time I had it, I never gave it a good go, but it seemed to work good. But I wanted a different feel.....

The issue is this. I can be playing my FD-9, but I never know where I am at in the range. I have no point of reference as no matter how much I tweak, my foot can be anywhere from 100 to 127 in the range and I want some feedback when the hat is closed, then another step to get to the tight sounds. Edrumin really lets me customise and get it to work great, but there isnt any feel.

So anyhow. I realise ROB has implemented some new features to help with the VH series, but can a person get that "tight" sound after they get to close. Is there an extra "touch" you can get that tells you there is more resistance?

Should a guy just buy a VH-12 or -13 to go for feel? Thats a lot of money, but if I know its the perfect solution I would try it.

I think the thing for me is I want PROPER feel for when the pedal is closed, and I want a mm or two of extra travel for TIGHT. Im fairly close with the KT-9, but I think a custom or another solution could offer more feel.

Has anyone else come up with any unique insights for the "feel" of a closed to open hihat that allows a person to play with confidence knowing where there hi hat is at?.

Curious to hear any other input about hi - hat experiences for players who want that extra level of control and control for tight hi hat work. Some guys are happy with the basics!

[perceval]

For sensitivity with range from the pedal input, I'm very happy with my low key solution of a FSR mounted in sandwich under the top hat.
Basically it is the same as the Goedrum and VH I believe. Just that mine costs $10 and a bit of DIYing to set it up.

For feel, if someone could come up with a metal HH giving me 3 zones, triggers amazing and is a little quieter than the low volume cymbals are at the moment, I'd be in heaven.

Rubber top hats just grab my stick and it really doesn't feel the same as metal HH.

One can dream.....

[MWJT42]

Easy, use a set of actual hi-hats..!

Physical notes:

I have the Goedrum under a pair of low volume metal cymbals. You need to 3D print a thing to allow for dual hats. I’ve put a rubber edge on top and bottom, which alters the stick feel on the edge, but is necessary for volume dampening and hiding the edge trigger.

LV cymbals from Alibaba were super cheap and very nice. I don’t have 3 zone, as I don’t play the bell, but that’s just a case of adding another piezo - as it’ll be mounted on a dome curve, you’ll need some foam under it.

All details on the 2 piece hi hat build here: https://youtu.be/658bexvAPyI

I got the part 3D printed off Reddit for £13 posted, https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprintmything

Put it on a proper hi hat stand!

The FSR sensor method on the DIY thread is reported to be successful too.

eDRUMin notes, the stand mounted VH-11 / Goedrum type controllers are classed as ‘pedal’ (as they respond the same). Dialling in the hat takes time and understanding - watch Rob’s video for foot chicks and splashes. The curve requires experimentation, remember it’s inverted. Filtering out false triggers using decay and hold time are necessary on metal cymbals, and cross talk is tricky as you’ll be smashing 2 large things together using the hi hat pedal, but possible by linking the pedal to the pad.

VSTi notes. SD3 is ace, but it has a renowned hi hat artifact issue, which ruins it. eDRUMin fixes this with the magic ‘fast stepping fix’ check box. Sending CC midi on every hit can also be useful too.

I may be biased, as I’m now ‘used’ to playing my hat, but for me, it feels and sounds incredibly natural. I can just play, without being distracted by it.

IMO, this is the best method, but VH11 or 13 will get your 80% there, once calibrated right.

[Molson]

I agree with you regarding the FD9. Works great but really lacking any feel (very "squishy"). I think I'm personally going to try the FSR method from the other thread combined with the ATV pad.

[monospace]

I got nothing but praise for the VH-10. it’s lighter and more responsive than the VH-11 (which I owned for many years before). I’m using a fairly cheap, but adjustable, Tama stand and I’m getting every possible articulation out of it, including “tight”. Just follow the manual when setting it up, and spend some quality time tweaking it with eDRUMin — you’ll find it’s by far the best solution out there. Don’t bother with the 12 or 13; they’re LOUD, heavy, and expensive, and only marginally better than the 10.

[MisterE]

I got nothing but praise for the VH-10. it’s lighter and more responsive than the VH-11 (which I owned for many years before). I’m using a fairly cheap, but adjustable, Tama stand and I’m getting every possible articulation out of it, including “tight”. Just follow the manual when setting it up, and spend some quality time tweaking it with eDRUMin — you’ll find it’s by far the best solution out there. Don’t bother with the 12 or 13; they’re LOUD, heavy, and expensive, and only marginally better than the 10.

Thanks for your post. I just picked up a VH-10 from dDrumcenter and will set it up tonight. I'm curious. Given your positive comments about the VH10, in what way do you think the VH13 is marginally better than the 10? Have you tried them side by side by chance?

[Gemini8026]

I got nothing but praise for the VH-10. it’s lighter and more responsive than the VH-11 (which I owned for many years before). I’m using a fairly cheap, but adjustable, Tama stand and I’m getting every possible articulation out of it, including “tight”. Just follow the manual when setting it up, and spend some quality time tweaking it with eDRUMin — you’ll find it’s by far the best solution out there. Don’t bother with the 12 or 13; they’re LOUD, heavy, and expensive, and only marginally better than the 10.

There are NO VH-10's in Canada, so I ordered one..... From Japan! US dealers arent allowed to sell Roland gear here. Anyhow. I am excited, but I will have to wait a few weeks for it to get here.

I do want to try the mouse pad mod to get that tight articulation perfect! Im also going to grab a strong stand with a good spring to avoid as much movement as possible. Looking forward.

In reality the perfect hi-hat solution is VERY difficult to achieve. The relationship between the two hats, how hard they are hit, and other variables make it tough to translate into the digital world. I find it very distracting having grown up on acoustic hats. You essentially have to change your playing to accomodate it so I think we all want the best solution for the time being.

Even if Roland comes out with a new digital solution, I am curious if their pad will be digital, or if their interface will also incorporate something like the ATV 14" hats with their optical sensor. Even that isnt a perfect solution.

Im happy Rob has taken on this task and done an excellent job getting the hi hat and controller paired up for optimal tweaking. The fast step fix is likely something Roland has never considered. I have a feeling it will only get better. On a side note, Rob if you have a spare moment can you explain what exactly it does, and any future plans you have for more software/DSP side of hi hat tweaking?

[monospace]

Thanks for your post. I just picked up a VH-10 from dDrumcenter and will set it up tonight. I'm curious. Given your positive comments about the VH10, in what way do you think the VH13 is marginally better than the 10? Have you tried them side by side by chance?

Not side by side but I’ve played them in a recording setup. This was on a decent Roland module (a TD-30 I believe) and it was fine. But acoustically it was loud, too loud for me to get away with in my apartment, and in terms of response i felt it wasn’t really all that different from the VH-11 I had at the time. I since “upgraded” to the VH-10 (basically the edge of the VH-11 stopped responding and I’m too inept, or lazy, or both, to try to fix it) and in my experience it’s even nicer than the the 11. When I say the 13 is “marginally better” I’m mostly thinking of the look and feel of it. But the VH-10 is a much better deal for the money. You’ll enjoy playing it.

[punkouter2021]

Anyone use Yamaha HH65? I use it.. is there really better options? seems ok to me

[Gemini8026]

Anyone use Yamaha HH65? I use it.. is there really better options? seems ok to me

More often then not, it all comes down to the style of music you play. IF you are playing punk or something without a lot of intricate hi hat work, you will not notice.

If you have played acoutic drums all your life and enjoy playing jazz or music with some more dynamics and intricate hi hat work, then you will always be on a quest to replicate that feel.

Go watch some Eric Moore or Chris Coleman videos and tell me if ANY hi hat can come close to what those guys put their hi hats through!

E-drums are good, but the Hi hat is the most complex of all drum equiptment and they havent figured out a way to translate perfectly. Some will say that getting 75% of the way there is good enough, but perfectionists and true musicians always want the best instrument they can get.

Make no mistake, E drums are great, but when you sit down at a real well set up acoustic set you realise how many of those subtleties are hard to replicate.