Zildjian LV converted test

[MWJT42]

Are these bell piezo wired to be switches?

I’m no EE but it seems to me the best way to get these metal cymbals to work well with dynamics and swells and all that would be to use piezo in all three zones but wire the edge and bell to act like switches.

I assume for the 3 tones:

Bow (piezo) - velocity sensitive as expected
Edge (switch) - switch says 'you've hit the edge! - but I'll use bow velocity data to work out how hard'
Bell (piezo) - very little bow vibration data, so relies on own velocity to determine how hard.

On Roland, this is 2 inputs. Module uses internal crosstalk parameters to cancel bow input, when bell triggered.

If this is correct, isn't implementing a 'special reject' crosstalk (as Yamaha modules put it) the obvious solution here? (where the ride bell, special rejects the ride bow)

I presume having a specific crosstalk cancellation option available will also be useful in other cases? (highhat and snare pads sharing the same rack arm for instance, as is the case for the Yamaha DTX modules)

[Sly]

Are these bell piezo wired to be switches?

I’m no EE but it seems to me the best way to get these metal cymbals to work well with dynamics and swells and all that would be to use piezo in all three zones but wire the edge and bell to act like switches.

I assume for the 3 tones:

Bow (piezo) - velocity sensitive as expected
Edge (switch) - switch says 'you've hit the edge! - but I'll use bow velocity data to work out how hard'
Bell (piezo) - very little bow vibration data, so relies on own velocity to determine how hard.

On Roland, this is 2 inputs. Module uses internal crosstalk parameters to cancel bow input, when bell triggered.

If this is correct, isn't implementing a 'special reject' crosstalk (as Yamaha modules put it) the obvious solution here? (where the ride bell, special rejects the ride bow)

I presume having a specific crosstalk cancellation option available will also be useful in other cases? (highhat and snare pads sharing the same rack arm for instance, as is the case for the Yamaha DTX modules)

That's what I was trying to explain... Totally agree

What I still don't really unsderstand is how those diamond cymbals are supposed to work on Roland gear like the TD-17 which has only a global crosstalk setting

[MWJT42]

What I still don't really unsderstand is how those diamond cymbals are supposed to work on Roland gear like the TD-17 which has only a global crosstalk setting

Does the TD17 have dual inputs for Roland ride cymbals? Presumably, if so, it does have a preconfigured crosstalk cancellation just for this input.

[Sly]

TD-17 should have a 3 zone ride input (two jacks) but it is supposed to work with a switch on the bell, not a piezo

[MWJT42]

TD-17 should have a 3 zone ride input (two jacks) but it is supposed to work with a switch on the bell, not a piezo

If that's the case, presumably it operates identically to the edge and takes the velocity from the bow on a Roland cymbal - or it just doesn't have any dynamics.

No idea how the Diamond ones work with the TD17 then!

[Sly]

Rob, I measured 3.3V between ring and sleeve of the tom3 input of the TD-30. Pad setting don't affect it, it's 3.3V when set to PD128 for exemple.
My meter can't measured the current, but I think I can remember that there's only 50µA... That's maybe why it is safe for piezos.
there's about 0V between tip and sleeve though.

[AKA Wayne]

Has anyone tried a three zone ride with the bell piezo on a separate input?

[Rob]

Rob, I measured 3.3V between ring and sleeve of the tom3 input of the TD-30. Pad setting don't affect it, it's 3.3V when set to PD128 for exemple.
My meter can't measured the current, but I think I can remember that there's only 50µA... That's maybe why it is safe for piezos.
there's about 0V between tip and sleeve though.

Thanks. Good to know.

[Mylo]

Has anyone tried a three zone ride with the bell piezo on a separate input?

I’ve owned a Jobeky Real Feel and FIELD 3-zone ride. I was never able to get great results no matter what I tried on the eDRUMin. That’s not a knock on the eDRUMin or the cymbals. Metal cymbals by nature are very different beasts then their rubber counterparts.

Here is one of my threads discussing it: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=554
Here is another: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=525

[Rob]

When metal 3-zone cymbal is plugged into a Roland module, what are the dynamics on the bell like?