DSP trigger and Zildjian Gen 16 Cymbals

[macca2004]

Hi, Has anyone used DSP Trigger with Gen 16 cymbals?

I know there is a microphone type which should in theory work, but would there be anyway to have positional sensing for bell/bow/edge.

On the Zildjians the microphone/pickup is in the center of the cymbal.

I am going to use this with Tascam U1800 which has 16 audio inputs and run snare/tom pads through megadrum or 2 box.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Rob]

You're talking about these?
http://zildjian.com/News-Events/2011/1/Gen16-AE-Cymbals

Without getting my hands on them to do some tests and make an input type, you won't be able to get very far with them short of using them in microphone mode. This is actually the first I've heard of them.

[macca2004]

Yes they are the cymbals.

Zildjian have reduced the prices a lot in the UK so now it's worth looking at them as triggers. The "cymbal" sounds from them are not to my liking but they look cool and are pretty quiet.

I could add piezo triggers to them easily..but hoping to do something using the single microphone.

When they are delivered I will send you some samples to see if it's possible to simulate "multiple" zones.

[Paloha]

Hello Rob, please, could you post an update to this thread? I know it is a 7y old thread but I happened to be in the same situation.

I have L80 cymbals which are basically the same as the Gen16 already mentioned, just that these do not have any "built in" microphone. I want to reuse my standard drum mics + audio interface in combination with DAW and your DSP Trigger to trigger a drum sampler, lets say Superior Drummer 3. But I have not found any videos showing the DSP Trigger with standard microphone input of cymbals would work.

I have no idea whether multiple zones would work, whether choking would work etc. What about hi-hat? If it does not work, can you think about some workaround such that it is possible (maybe adding some piezos to already mic-ed cymbals)? I really prefer L80 cymbals to the rubber cymbal pads for multiple reasons - 1. they look as normal cymbals, 2. feel as normal cymbals - good for practice, 3. sound by themself at least like cheap cymbals - also work if I want to practice just acoustically, 4. are very quiet, so perfect in an apartment.

Btw, I also want to use drum mics to trigger the snare, toms and base drum. I have a mesh head on them and all reso heads are standard so I get a quite but still nice tone out of them. Basically now I have a classic acoustic set with mesh heads which sound realistic but quieter along with quiet cymbals, but to get a really nice sound I want to mix / replace it with drum samples. I hope you will be able to shed some light into this. Thanks a lot.

[Paul H]

Hi Gang -

I too am wondering about the use of the L80 cymbals with DSP Trigger.

I tried out the GEN16 pickups and processor on my L80 cymbals and wondered if I could somehow turn them into triggers for my DDTI interface running into DSP trigger.

Rob - I am happy to lend you my GEN16 pickups, L80 Cyms and the Zildjian processor if that would help you to create an input option for DSPT. Maybe we can work out a swap/discount deal on the new edrumin10?!?

Thanks,
PH

[Rob]

I'm not currently developing DSPT. I would like to when I have more time, but I don't know then that will be.

[MWJT42]

Hello Rob, please, could you post an update to this thread? I know it is a 7y old thread but I happened to be in the same situation.

I have L80 cymbals which are basically the same as the Gen16 already mentioned, just that these do not have any "built in" microphone. I want to reuse my standard drum mics + audio interface in combination with DAW and your DSP Trigger to trigger a drum sampler, lets say Superior Drummer 3. But I have not found any videos showing the DSP Trigger with standard microphone input of cymbals would work.

I have no idea whether multiple zones would work, whether choking would work etc. What about hi-hat? If it does not work, can you think about some workaround such that it is possible (maybe adding some piezos to already mic-ed cymbals)? I really prefer L80 cymbals to the rubber cymbal pads for multiple reasons - 1. they look as normal cymbals, 2. feel as normal cymbals - good for practice, 3. sound by themself at least like cheap cymbals - also work if I want to practice just acoustically, 4. are very quiet, so perfect in an apartment.

Btw, I also want to use drum mics to trigger the snare, toms and base drum. I have a mesh head on them and all reso heads are standard so I get a quite but still nice tone out of them. Basically now I have a classic acoustic set with mesh heads which sound realistic but quieter along with quiet cymbals, but to get a really nice sound I want to mix / replace it with drum samples. I hope you will be able to shed some light into this. Thanks a lot.

You'll be hard pushed to isolate each individual cymbal using standard microphones. Piezos is the way.

I'm intending to convert some low-volume cymbals (from AliBaBa) using the goedrum triggers. Have a look at these videos here (the hat is really messy in the first video, much improved in the 2nd with the updated triggers)

https://youtu.be/kQd-Z2Zl5aU
https://youtu.be/658bexvAPyI
https://youtu.be/1v_n4rh3WU4

[tomvangaever]

The Zildjian 'direct source pickup sensor' is nothing more than an electret microphone. You can make it work with any electret preamp (you can find them for 1$) and a standard mixing table. So there's no need to buy the expensive 'direct source pickup' (which is Zildjians preamp) and cymbal controller (which is Zildjians mixing table).

So if you could get DSP trigger to work for cymbals with a microphone it would also work with the GEN16 AE system. I think cymbals are tricky to trigger with a microphone, because they have such a long sustain. I've tried DSP trigger with my GEN16 AE conversion and the triggering is not very good, either it only triggers with hard hits or you get multiple triggers with one hit.

It would be fantastic if you could get it to work though! For some applications I play my cymbals triggered and I have to add triggers and dampening, it would be great if that isn't necessary anymore!

[tomvangaever]

I tried DSP trigger with dampened GEN16 AE cymbals and it triggers perfect. Of course, it would also be very hard to get good triggering results on an undampened cymbal with piezo triggers!

I didn't need to use the 'microphone' setting in DSP trigger, it just worked with the 'generic pad' settings. 'Edge sensing' didn't work though, had to disable it.

This raises an interesting question for me: would it also work if I plug the output of my zildjian 'direct source sensors' into the eDRUMin device? I use the sensors connected to a standard electret preamp which runs on 5v. If DSP trigger can easily recognise this signal, would this also be thru for the eDRUMin device? Or would it fry the internals?

[tomvangaever]

So I tried triggering the eDRUMin device with the GEN16 AE output and it works. I didn't get great dynamics jet, but maybe it needs a bit more tweaking. This means you can trigger eDRUMin with contact mics also.