Latency

[Sly]

Hi Rob,

Did you measure the overall latency of Edrumin ?

Does a feature like the bell sense for Roland cymbal, or the rim sense with mono input increase the latency ?

[Rob]

I measured the latency on Windows, but haven't done the same on macOS. Latency is a complex beast. Here's a very detailed summary of my findings.

SCANTIME LATENCY
There's a bit of latency that results from actually measuring the magnitude of a 'hit' which in most drum modules is called scan time. The default for eDRUMin 3ms, but you can get away with 2ms for most pads.

DEVICE->SOFTWARE
Then there's about 3ms of latency from when a MIDI note is sent from the eDRUMin until it reaches software running on the computer.

So if you are recording the MIDI from the eDRUMin in a sequencer, you can expect those notes to have a latency of around 2ms + 3ms = 5ms.

MONITORING LATENCY
Now if you are also monitoring the sound from a virtual instrument (and you most likely are), you will also get audio output latency. On a modern system with reasonably low audio buffers, this might be about 3ms.

So, adding it all up, a modern DAW with low audio buffers can expect about 8ms of latency from the instant the stick hits the surface of a pad until the time you hear the sound in your headphone. That's about as fast any hardware can possible run.

For your other questions, Bell Sense and Rim Sense do not add any extra latency. The data for these features is crunched during the scan time. And in terms of raw power, assuming you have 4 dual zone pads connected (8 piezos), the device is able to measure each of those piezo's about 8000 times per second.

[Sly]

Seems very fast indeed.

I know that it's neither for today, nor for tomorow, but you should think about a feature we found on TD-30, it's an sound card included in the module. If Edrumin could have an embeded fast sound card, it would be great. Just plug Edrumin in a PC via usb, and enjoy.

I always use an external sound card, I must admit that I never tried to use any drum sampler with the sound card of my laptop, I doubt that it will be fast enough even with the asio driver that we now have on windows 10. But I'm maybe wrong.

[dsteinschneider]

There are two camps in the keyboard synth world, people who use midi controllers with computer based modeled or sample based VST plugins versus those who use keyboards with onboard sounds.

I'm in the first camp. With a well configured laptop running professional level VST host software (Cantabile for example) and a decent quality USB interface you get very, very close to the responsiveness of the original instruments.

I haven't used an eDRUMin yet but I predict if you stacked it in the above paragraph's scenario against a TD-50 people will say the eDRUMin with Superior Drummer 3/BFD/Addictive Drums/Steve Slate 5 plays and sounds better.

My point is that I prefer if Audiofront concentrates on making the best possible trigger to midi processor possible and leave the sound libraries and processing to the rapidly evolving computer, sound interface and VST plugin industries.

[Mylo]

This thread has become the topic of a thread on v-drums. Can I get some clarification on the above statements:

The bullet titled SCANTIME LATENCY: this is all done in the eDRUMin giving the eDRUMin a latency of 2-3ms. Correct?

The bullet titled DEVICE=>SOFTWARE: this is outside the eDRUMin, that is to say any device in the audio chain after the eDRUMin but before the software such as SD3. Correct?

[Rob]

The scantime latency = the scan time setting in the eDRUMin control application.

The device to software is just how long it takes for the operating system to route MIDI from the USB port and make it available to applications.

[mprinz]

[...] the eDRUMin with Superior Drummer 3/BFD/Addictive Drums/Steve Slate 5 plays and sounds better.
My point is that I prefer if Audiofront concentrates on making the best possible trigger to midi processor possible and leave the sound libraries and processing to the rapidly evolving computer, sound interface and VST plugin industries.

Yeah! dito!

Some people say you cannot use a that in a live performance... Ok, you could run a second cloned system for a backup but I'm messing around since a year here with EZDrummer2 and Superior Drummer 3 now ... and there was no issue.

I recently discovered the following:

I have set my buffer in Plogue Bidule to 32 sampes ( https://www.plogue.com/products/bidule.html ).
In some EZDrummer2 libraries I got a few crackles. And a few days ago I watched a vid on YouTube https://youtu.be/yMOUGa1TY98 and I recognized that I dont need that few samples.
I could go to 64 or even 128 and I am fine. Even the 256 are still playable and I will switch to that when needing more CPU power for other
processes (DAW, OBS ... whatever).
I have here a M-Audio Fast Track Ultra. I bought it used on eBay 2013. Would there be a large difference when switching to a new one?

Anyway I wanted to share those "findings".

[perceval]

you will need to spend a lot of money if you want a better audio card. Something like an RME will get you a few ms faster, but at about $1,000.
Cheaper if your computer can accept the older PCIe of it, which you could buy used like your present interface.

Since you are comfortable playing at 128 samples, I suggest you don't need that kind of performance/price point.

[mprinz]

Since you are comfortable playing at 128 samples, I suggest you don't need that kind of performance/price point.

Sometimes, even at 64 samples, yuuur, it feels like a tiny little squishy. Maybe I got used to it, because it is usable.
Yap!

Anyway:

I ordered a new Steinberg Interface, just for testing.
I thought, if they are in the DAW business, they should know how to program a fast ASIO driver.
I would like to know if there is a relevant difference, and if I missed the better performance of a newer interface...

Regards

[perceval]

I doubt you will see/hear much difference, but hey... new toys are always cool!