Feature request regarding eDRUMin Positional Sensing data

[Cartman1227]

Feature request:

In order to be compatible to BecauseDrumGeek smooth transition Center-to-Edge Positional Sensing engines (stepless),
it would be nice to have the following two features from the eDRUMin:

1. the Positional Sensing CC value range should be 0 - 127 (not 0, 64-127) and it should be available over the entire radius (and not start with value 64 at a certain off center position). With a Roland module and a good analog mesh pad like a DrumTec Pro(3) snare, you can also get quite detailed and consistent values (0-127) over the entire radius. This comes quite close to the level of detail and consistency of the PS values from the digital Roland snare.

2. (just like with Roland modules:) a CC value should always be transmitted together with a note event (even if the value does not change -> so by striking the center exclusively, value 0 should always be sent with the noteON event. This is necessary to be able to drive a stepless Positional Sensing engine without any artifacts due to dynamic drumming.)

[perceval]

First, it might take a bit to get a reply because the dev is on vacation.

Second, why would we need PS values from 1-127?
I do not know of any module or VST that has multiple velocity samples for 127 different placement of hits around the head.
That would take some beefy memory and processor.
To my knowledge, most have 3 zones sampled: center, surround and close to the edge.

[Rob]

The eDRUMin positional sensing data goes from 64 to 127 because it's unable to accurately measure the position in the 0-64 range, and so it just treats them all as position 0. An eDRUMin isn't a Roland module, and while I'm not privy to Roland triggering circuitry, I can only assume they are not the same.

Your second request would be easy enough to implement, but in your use case it seems it would not be helpful unless the first request could be honored.

[Cartman1227]

The eDRUMin positional sensing data goes from 64 to 127 because it's unable to accurately measure the position in the 0-64 range, and so it just treats them all as position 0. An eDRUMin isn't a Roland module, and while I'm not privy to Roland triggering circuitry, I can only assume they are not the same.

I see.

Your second request would be easy enough to implement, but in your use case it seems it would not be helpful unless the first request could be honored.

It will still help a lot for the engine ( -> stepless transition is also possible for the 64 - 127 range!), so I would be grateful if you could implement it.

[Cartman1227]

Second, why would we need PS values from 1-127?
I do not know of any module or VST that has multiple velocity samples for 127 different placement of hits around the head.
That would take some beefy memory and processor.
To my knowledge, most have 3 zones sampled: center, surround and close to the edge.

It's intended for the smooth transition PS engine https://youtu.be/qSX2YqxDKho.

[perceval]

I still hear only 3 articulations. What else should I hear?

And since he varies velocities between center and off-center/edge hits, of course there are some transitions between the 3 different zones.

I'm sorry, I still don't understand what the purpose is here.
The module/eDRUMin will assign 3 zones, I've been looking online and manuals, but I can not find a list of value range assorted to each zone, they only mention 0 to 127.
Now, are the zones separated in three somewhat equal ranges, 0-42, 43-84, 85-127 ?
Then, I see that there would be a gap between 42 and the lowest the eDRUMin can sense at 64.

But that's assuming they are 3 equal zone ranges. Are the ranges of zones editable in a Roland module? or are they always fixed?

For example, if center is 0-64 and off center 65-100 and edge 101-127, then the point is moot.

Sorry, lots of things I'm not familiar with here, especially coming from a Yamaha module.
But, if there's some info I lack, I'd love to know!

[Cartman1227]

I still hear only 3 articulations. What else should I hear?

The difference is a smooth transition with the advanced PS engine vs. 3 or 2 distinct steps (depends on the drum sampler: 3 with SD3 and 2 with EZ3/SSD5 and many others) which change suddenly at certain radius points on the drum head. Of course, you won't find that default drum sampler behavior on an acoustic drum - there it is stepless and not 3 or 2 distinct stages.

[perceval]

I don't know, I still heard stepped transitions in that video you linked. Not that smooth.
Related to the 2 or 3 sampled zone, indeed.
Most of the "smoothness" came from him playing hard in the center, but gently off and edge.

E-drums will always be an approximation of acoustics, but most that use e-drums do it because of either some convenience, but also some things that acoustics can't do.

[Cartman1227]

I still heard stepped transitions

You still heard the three SD3 snare zones as three steps??
Well, I do not. And I don't listen through laptop speakers and don't suffer from hearing loss.

And it always depends on the engine settings (CC translation , applied CC curves) and of course the dregree of details and consistency of the CC output from the snare pad. If you adjust the engine settings (CC curves) you can improve smoothness of individual snare models.

Check these timestamps (00:41 - 00:55) + [02:00 - 02:45] again with good speakers or headphones and maybe better see an ear specialist if you still hear the three SD3 articulations (Center, Off Center and Edge) as distinct zones : https://youtu.be/qSX2YqxDKho?t=41 + https://youtu.be/qSX2YqxDKho?t=120

[perceval]

I build hifi audio speakers.

Clearly, you are enthusiastic about this. Good for you.

Frankly, this is splitting hairs, because in a mix, no one will hear these "much better transitions."