Center Flam Triggers Off Center Hit

[Rob]

No, it should trigger two hits. I'm saying if your decay control is too aggressive, it will mistrigger a third note which will have an unpredictable positional value. You can see if that is happening by looking in the MIDI monitor.

MIDI Monitor

Take a look at the pic below, notice how the waveform of the 2nd hit of a flam is fuller. If your decay setting is too aggressive, it might retrigger a third time (most likely around the 200-300ms mark).

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[nemo]

I suspect you hold is too short or decay is too aggressive and you are getting a double trigger after after the flam.

Hello,
I am still on build 13 to give meaningful report.

For sure there was no double trigger after flam:
CC 0
Note on
Note off
CC: 127
Note on
Note off

... but I still followed your advice and increased the Hold from 9.3 to 30. And it helped.
Is it possible from the perspective of the algorithm?
Till now I believed that the Hold phase is just waiting to avoid double triggering and nothing else...

[Rob]

Can you do a single center hit on your pad and post a screenshot so I can see what the transient looks like.

[nemo]

Of course, I reverted back to 9.3 in case you need the screenshot from midi monitor

[Rob]

I see. I'm now thinking that you aren't actually playing a flam, but rather two hits close together. Keep your hold where it is, and make your decay more aggressive. The way it is now, the envelope can't return to zero quick enough to pick up the positional information for the second hit.

I highly recommend watching my video called Transient Scan Controls.

[nemo]

Ok, will do.
By the way let me express my appreciation for the way you support your product and the community around

[AKA Wayne]

I echo my appreciation for your commitment. I also tinkered with the controls and it didn't seems to help. One question, what do your u mean by actually playing 2 hits instead of a flam. Isn't that how a flam is played? I'll post my transient today too to compare.

[MisterE]

I echo my appreciation for your commitment. I also tinkered with the controls and it didn't seems to help. One question, what do your u mean by actually playing 2 hits instead of a flam. Isn't that how a flam is played? I'll post my transient today too to compare.

To alleviate confusion, if we are applying standard/usual drumming definitions, a flam is two notes played within a very narrow window of time, the first being a grace note (aka "ghost note") and the second being the principal hit played at normal volume. I would assume two hits would be of similar dynamic levels, played within a short window of time. So, it seems to me we're talking about dynamics. If the first note is a grace note, it's a flam. If the first note is similar in volume to the principal note, it's two hits.

[Rob]

From the device's perspective, it just makes a difference if the hits are almost at exactly the same time (within about 30ms), vs hits that are more sequential.

If the second hit arrives before the first hit has lost enough energy, positional information from the second hit will not be reliable, so the device just uses the position from the first hit for both (only one CC value). If enough time has passed such that the first hit has already decayed enough then positional information will be more reliable and so the device processes positional information for both hits.

I'm not going to dwell on this anymore. The bottom line is that your Transient Scan Controls need to be properly dialed in you want to push your drum pads to perform at a high level. Again, I suggest watching the following video:
https://youtu.be/v9_w32TWKZ0

[AKA Wayne]

Sorry to dwell on this. I'm just trying to figure out if this is a problem unique to my situation or if others have noticed this too. I can see how both technique, settings as well as rigger build can affect this. I've been practicing a lot of flam students lately so I have been noticing it in my playing style. Here is a picture of my flam and settings as well as it showing the positional information as being well into the off center zoneso I take from your response, Rob, that you do not experience this anomaly? Thanks again for your attention.

Screen Shot 2023-12-16 at 7.17.33 AM.png (669.32 KiB) Viewed 6041 times