review of Drum-tec pro 14" snare and Edrumin

[MisterE]

Really interesting. I have the wooden snare but will try damping the rods.

Lalo brings up a good point that these snares work great without modification with Roland drum brains. It would be nice if that was possible. Or maybe adding damping is beneficial, regardless of drum brain, and drum-tec could add it to their product.

Perhaps Roland module trigger engines filter out unwanted resonant frequencies. If that's the case, I wonder if Rob can do the same.

[gkurtenbach]

Hmmm, I tried dampening the rods on my drum-tec pro wooden snare (14") and there didn't seem to be much of a difference if any. WIthout dampening PS seems to work ok and HS does work a little bit but it still feels more responsive with HS off.

[AKA Wayne]

Interesting discovery Rob. I’ll be following this. I have a home made 3D printed spoke style snare they I have some similar issues with. Might have to try this with some rubber I have lying around.

How are cross sticks and rim shot? Still sensitive?

[Rob]

It seems that the 3-ply 'real feel' doesn't perform as well as a 2-ply head. I need to do some more research.

Perhaps Roland module trigger engines filter out unwanted resonant frequencies. If that's the case, I wonder if Rob can do the same.

That is almost certainly what is going on. The difficulty is that those same frequencies are important for HSS, and while filtering them out electronically will improve positional sensing, it will also prevent HSS from working.

How are cross sticks and rim shot? Still sensitive?

Yes.

[gkurtenbach]

Hmmm, I tried dampening the rods on my drum-tec pro wooden snare (14") and there didn't seem to be much of a difference if any. WIthout dampening PS seems to work ok and HS does work a little bit but it still feels more responsive with HS off.

Just realized that your snare, Rob, is also wood--sorry when you said "stainless steel" I thought you meant drum-tec's hand-hammered snares which seem to be metal. Ok, good, we have the same snares.

PS seems to be working with my snare with the real feel head. Otherwise, its stock with 25K resisters. I did tighten the head more than what was shipped to me.

[Rob]

So I think I've got a solution that will get HSS and positional sensing working for this snare without the need for dampening, resistors, or changing drum heads. It involves adding a new control to the UI, so I need to make some room for it, but I should have something testable in a few days.

[lalo]

Hmmm, I tried dampening the rods on my drum-tec pro wooden snare (14") and there didn't seem to be much of a difference if any. WIthout dampening PS seems to work ok and HS does work a little bit but it still feels more responsive with HS off.

Just realized that your snare, Rob, is also wood--sorry when you said "stainless steel" I thought you meant drum-tec's hand-hammered snares which seem to be metal. Ok, good, we have the same snares.

No, it's not wood, it's made of steel like the hand hammered:

drum-tec pro Snare 14

drum-tec pro Snare Drum 14" x 5,5" (stainless steel)The high-end e-drum snare drum - Made in Germany!full 5 year warranty on all drum-tec pro pads100% Roland compatibleThe sophisticated choice. Our beautiful drum-tec pro series e-drum is a visual masterpiece.Refined shell design - our e-drums are said to "have a soul"The drum-tec pro series is a proprietary design with acoustic-sized shells and the result from our combined experiences as e-drum professionals.Our shells have been specifically designed for our trigger technology and are manufactured to our exact specifications. All required components have been built in laser-controlled precision work right here in Germany.The drum-tec pro series supports high-end features like position-sensing (with Roland TD-12/20/25/30/50 sound modules) as well as complete dual-triggering on the toms.Made in Germany: The entire series is assembled by hand to meet our incredibly high quality demands.The drum-tec pro series comes with drum-tec triple-ply real feel mesh heads! They are incredibly authentic to play on, have the best trigger support and are extremely durable. (Note: The bass drum has a real feel trigger system where the beater actually sinks in to the head. This works even better with the 2-ply design series, which is why this is what's mounted on the bass)The drum-tec pro series will fit you like a glove: It is not just a perfectly built e-drum. The pro series also feels like the big drum-set it is with the dimensions, stage-presence and visual appeal of an acoustic set.Warranty:Each of our handmade "Made in Germany" e-drum pads have been subjected to a strict quality control. Only perfect pads are leaving our house!full 5 year warranty on all drum-tec pro padsAll drum-tec pads of the pro- and diabolo series are compatible with the following components:all Roland modules (TD-3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/12/15/17/20/25/27/30/50)Pearl Mimic ProRoland TMC-6 and TM-2all Roland octopads and multi-pads like SPD-S and SX, SPD-30 etc.2Box module drumIt5 and drumIt3all ddrum modules (ddrum 2, 3, 4 + AT) Alesis DM10, trigger I/O, advanced drum module, strike. (with older Alesis modules partly just mono triggering)Alesis performance pads, sample pads e.t.c.Yamaha modules and also DTXM12 multi-pad - only 1 zone (no rim-sensing)ATV aD5

[gkurtenbach]

No, it's not wood, it's made of steel like the hand hammered:

Really, the shell is steel? Wow, I just thought it was a stainless steel wrap in drum-tec's "pro" product line. Strikes me as a bad idea for a trigger since steel could have weird resonances. However, I guess if it works ok...

Anyway, it sounds like Rob is getting it sorted out.

Thanks!

[Rob]

I posted build 25 in the BETA thread that has a new positional sensing control to help tame the drum-tec 14" snare. If any of you are already using the BETA, it would be great if you could test out the new control and see it helps you tame positional sensing and HSS. I still get a couple of bad spots where HSS is kicking in when it shouldn't be, but overall the playability is much improved.

There are now two controls for positional sensing. 'T' is positional sensing using the tip signal, and 'R' shown below uses information from the ring signal. When the meter falls into the orange rectangle, it forces positional sensing value to be at least 64, and also prevents hotspot suppression from being applied. Build 25 also has a factory preset called 'Drum-tec 14" snare (stainless)'.

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[gkurtenbach]

Thanks Rob!

I tried build 25 with my drum-tec 14" wooden snare. Your factory preset had way too much gain for me (4.3!)--even moderate hits were at 127 and turning down the gain and playing with HS and PS T, I still couldn't get HS working much. Also, maybe there is a bug or something because I could change the note assignments.

However, I went back to my regular settings and got it working better with than without. Here's my approach.

- set position R setting so hits more than 3 inches from the center are in the red zone

- set HS threshold so light hits in the black zone don't break the threshold (but heavier hits trigger suppression)

-set the amount of suppression so that there still is a rise when you hit the center sensor tip but some suppression is happening

- adjust the head velocity curve to have a bit more gain to make up for suppression being applied.

This wasn't perfect, mainly its seems sometimes the PS is off, but it was very playable and nicer than not having any suppression. Here's my settings (second image shows the position tip setting):

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BTW, Here's the factory preset that wouldn't work for me.

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