eDRUMin version 2 Alpha

[hang12]

What you are asking for is a lot of work, and I don't think I'm willing to go down that route, at least not now. However, below is a pic showing what I would be willing to add for you to facilitate editing note assignments in device presets. Each of the those buttons would be draggable. The green buttons indicate which notes are currently shown in the note controls at the bottom. The reddish buttons represent collections. You could drag and drop a lower level button onto an adjacent or higher level button to copy note assignments. And any button could be dragged into the list of presets that you be off to the left to copy the settings to another preset.

Perhaps in the future I could also support collections of device presets, but here are a couple of potentials issues. If a collection includes two ED10s and two ED4s, how am I to be sure which Device Preset belongs to which physical device. I would need to create a method to uniquely identify each device. Secondly, the Control Application only remembers settings for the currently selected device. I would need tp make a lot of changes to have it remember and manage collections of devices.

Thanks for considering multiple ways of accommodation. To be honest I'm not sure I'm understanding at all what your offering above does. My duh, sorry.

But I think the issues with the 'collection of device presets ' and everything in paragraph #2, summarizes the gotchas that I figured might be hurdles - regarding combining multiple hardware pieces. I wrote earlier how I've had multiple issues with ID'ing identical model devices for both Audio, and MIDI, interface hardware. Those issues include not being able to boot a Mac with both units powered up, or ghosting, or literally swapping input roles. It's been a horror show. And I actually had not considered this as a problem when I bought the two eDRUMin's, but I should have.

So far, thank goodness, the two eDRUMin10's I have, for whatever reason, haven't swapped ID's and inputs according to the app or in general. Maybe because one is clearly the USB slave of the other? Although I am holding back on adding an eDRUMin4 to replace the TMC-6 because I don't want to have to unplug it and the 2nd eDRUMin10 from a USB hub every time there is a firmware update. I really don't like bricks when the brick problem occurs.

Short of Audiofront creating or integrating a separate 'MIDI message output transpositional function', I'll just create one in Max to catch it all and convert it, and recall in snapshot fashion. It's basically DIY software, and I can drop it or an explanation of it in the DIY section of the forum, once I've cooked it up. Hopefully everything in v2 you're aiming for, for application cross-over will hit the target - wishing the best!

[Rob]

So far, thank goodness, the two eDRUMin10's I have, for whatever reason, haven't swapped ID's and inputs according to the app or in general. Maybe because one is clearly the USB slave of the other? Although I am holding back on adding an eDRUMin4 to replace the TMC-6 because I don't want to have to unplug it and the 2nd eDRUMin10 from a USB hub every time there is a firmware update. I really don't like bricks when the brick problem occurs.

If the devices are set to different 'colors', then they report different Product IDs to the OS and won't be confused. Secondly, the OS never sees eDRUMins you have plugged into the USB host port of an ED10. It just sees the one ED10. If a hub is plugged into the host port and multiple units are plugged into the hub, then it's impossible for the ED10 to know for sure which child device is which. They would need to some sort of handshaking and exchange a unique identifier.

BTW, I got you crossStick icon in there. I'll define it in all the factory presets. Thanks for the excellent suggestion.

image.png (58.51 KiB) Viewed 924 times

[Rob]

First I would like to thank you so much for your help. In a typical company, each developer has about 5 dedicated testers, and sadly I have none. Thank-you.

First, the travel and splash sense is much improved.

I'm glad you appreciate that. Much more reliable than in version 1.6.

Second, I’ve adjusted the Thresh and then select a pad and then came back to pedal editor and Thresh was back to original setting. So it’s not like it is keeping the settings. Looks like the “Fast Stepping Fix” is also not retained when leaving the pedal editor and then returning.

Thank-you. Fixed and fixed.

Next, the pedal velocity curve is good, but there is no read out of the velocity. I had to go to the MIDI log to see what velocity the pedal note was.

I'll add a velocity indicator for you.

Lastly, Use Drum Map selection looks the same as the input “Pad Function” “Drum Map Kit Pieces”, but for the pedal editor it is a toggle on/off vs a selection. I would suggest the pedal editor has a similar looking selection as the inputs. That is a drop down selection of “Drum Map Kit Piece” and “Note Banks”. I don’t know about “Record Assist”.

Excellent suggestion. It'll improve the continuity between the trigger settings and the hihat settings.

On a different topic on the drum map presets editor, I was confused on the HH. When I select the HH I see levels and CC. How do I know which one will be used by the drum map? Levels or CC?

While the Map defines both, it doesn't define which one should be used. That setting is below...and I see a typo. Fixed.

image.png (57.13 KiB) Viewed 928 times

[Rob]

I've posted build 8.

Changes

• Fixed Fast Stepping Fix and Thresh (impact mode) controls not working.
• Color coded MIDI Monitor messages by source and fixed some labeling issues.
• Changed hihat 'uses drum map' button to a dropdown similar to the trigger input editor
• Added a cross-stick kit piece image.
• Updated factory Drum Maps with cross-stick kit pieces and made it so that unused kit pieces (Extra Cymbals and Percussion) in some presets will play other kit pieces instead.
• Fixed a crash when closing app while drop down selectors are open.
• macOS installer fix to allow downgrading from future versions (still can't downgrade to 1.6 without uninstalling, unfortunately).
• Windows installer in now digitally signed.

A question. When an input is in Note / Note Bank mode, currently there's a drum map drop down selector. In the image below you can see that the BFD3 map is selected. Should I get rid of that and just assume that the user would like to pull notes from the device drum map, in this case Superior Drummer (shown at the top)?

image.png (104.04 KiB) Viewed 909 times

[dsteinschneider]

Hi Rob, I just installed 2.08 and am taking my first tour through. I have a DIY hi-hat controller using the Bestol 10Pcs A1302 sensor. Six months ago I built a little box with two TRS inputs. The TRS cable coming from the hi-hat's hall effect sensor goes into TRS input 1 and the positive lead from a USB cable plugged into the ED10 host USB port is connected to the ring of the first output TRS jack. The second TRS jack is connected to a patch cable to the pedal input. I did this after mentioning in the forum that my pedal had a narrow calibration green strip in the 1.6 calibration. You also recommended I switch to the Honeywell sensor when I get a chance which I will do at some point.

I have a few questions about the pedal 2.08

1. It detected Roland polarity and set the pedal as "hi-hat" type. What do you recommend I set for the above setup?
2. Should I remove my voltage patch box for 2.x?

The upgrade seems really spot on for my single ED10 setup. I have refrained from testing out other drum VST's than SD3 but will now see how it goes with DMKP. I recently got MODO Drums as part of the IK 25th anniversary group buy. I also have Kontakt and have always meant to see what Abbey Road Drums are like. Probably I will end up sticking with SD3 LoR but checking out other VST's can be interesting.

[hang12]

So far, thank goodness, the two eDRUMin10's I have, for whatever reason, haven't swapped ID's and inputs according to the app or in general. Maybe because one is clearly the USB slave of the other? Although I am holding back on adding an eDRUMin4 to replace the TMC-6 because I don't want to have to unplug it and the 2nd eDRUMin10 from a USB hub every time there is a firmware update. I really don't like bricks when the brick problem occurs.

If the devices are set to different 'colors', then they report different Product IDs to the OS and won't be confused. Secondly, the OS never sees eDRUMins you have plugged into the USB host port of an ED10. It just sees the one ED10. If a hub is plugged into the host port and multiple units are plugged into the hub, then it's impossible for the ED10 to know for sure which child device is which. They would need to some sort of handshaking and exchange a unique identifier.

BTW, I got you crossStick icon in there. I'll define it in all the factory presets. Thanks for the excellent suggestion.
image.png

OK that would be good to fix that v2 color icon transfer (inheritance?) problem for the firmware for the 2nd eDRUMin as well. For my perspective with one eDRUMin10 as 'slave', the Mac only sees one eDRUMin as 'eDRUMin Black' for both devices - hence my confusion as to why the app doesn't address a combined MIDI output of the two eDRUMin's as one, vs two. It's a bit clearer now.
I also want to avoid involving a hub (for an eDRUMin4) for a while until the dust settles here with v2 for ID'ing confusion, firmware upgrades, etc.

Thanks for cross stick - I have some more graphic requests...
Can you add numbers into the little graphic icons? you mentioned having up to 256 locations…
just thinking for the standard kit piece names…
e.g. for a Crash or generic 'C'ymbal, a cymbal graphic with ‘C1’ superimposed? Range of C1 - C9?
(Splash, pang, etc can probably fall into the ‘C#’ category)
For a Ride, a cymbal graphic with ‘R1’ superimposed? Range of R1 - R4?
For Toms, acoustic and/or pad graphics - Range of ‘T1’ - T9
Snares, acoustic and/or pad graphics - Range of ‘S1’ - S2
Kicks, ‘K1’ - K4 (I have two additional KT-10 pedals that I re-purpose for double kick, extra alt kick, or percussion)
HH - ‘1’- ‘2’?
I can't think of anything else that might be non-orchestral or percussive.
Numbering might be an easier physical and visual reference for the hardware kit, than figuring out just blank pictograghs…
I also didn't think squishing in two letters and a number would work visually, but if you have the space for Cy1 instead of C1,
Rd1, vs R1, maybe...(?)

I loaded V2b8 and still had the 2nd eDRUMin firmware upgrade issue with asking for changes made, then the 'OK' and 'Cancel' highlighting and freezing, until I had to quit the window - nowhere else to go. Also no % progress graphics about loading up new firmware for 2nd device. Coming from build 1.6 firmware. Not sure if dev#2 actually upgraded?

I also could not do a Save on the drum map preset. The one user preset I have would not respond to clicking on the line for overwrite, etc.

[Rob]

Can you add numbers into the little graphic icons? you mentioned having up to 256 locations…
just thinking for the standard kit piece names…
e.g. for a Crash or generic 'C'ymbal, a cymbal graphic with ‘C1’ superimposed? Range of C1 - C9?
(Splash, pang, etc can probably fall into the ‘C#’ category)
For a Ride, a cymbal graphic with ‘R1’ superimposed? Range of R1 - R4?
For Toms, acoustic and/or pad graphics - Range of ‘T1’ - T9
Snares, acoustic and/or pad graphics - Range of ‘S1’ - S2
Kicks, ‘K1’ - K4 (I have two additional KT-10 pedals that I re-purpose for double kick, extra alt kick, or percussion)
HH - ‘1’- ‘2’?
I can't think of anything else that might be non-orchestral or percussive.
Numbering might be an easier physical and visual reference for the hardware kit, than figuring out just blank pictograghs…
I also didn't think squishing in two letters and a number would work visually, but if you have the space for Cy1 instead of C1,
Rd1, vs R1, maybe...(?)

That wouldn't exactly be visually pleasing, so maybe I could add a preference to the eDRUMin logo drop down to turn the 'overlay' on and off.

I loaded V2b8 and still had the 2nd eDRUMin firmware upgrade issue with asking for changes made, then the 'OK' and 'Cancel' highlighting and freezing, until I had to quit the window - nowhere else to go. Also no % progress graphics about loading up new firmware for 2nd device. Coming from build 1.6 firmware. Not sure if dev#2 actually upgraded?

I've tested that issue several times on macOS (Catalina) and Windows, but always in the debugger. I will test some more today and try to find the problem. You can confirm if the update was successful by going back to the firmware section and checking the version number of the firmware. That is read directly from the firmware, so if it says version 2.0.0.x, then you can be certain it was updated.

UPDATE: I tested some more outside of the debugger and still can not reproduce. What version of macOS are you using?

UPDATE 2: I tested in Big Sur and also was unable to reproduce the issue.

That confirmation control is rock solid for me. I hold the mouse is such a way that it is over 'Upgrade' and 'Cancel' so I can hammer on the control hundreds of time, opening and closing that confirmation over and over looking for it to fail, but always to no avail.

UPDATE 3:
When you have begun editing a preset, the list of presets becomes locked. If it doesn't get locked, you would loose your changes if you clicked on another preset. A save icon is show in the Drum Map editor on the far ight. Once you click that, the list of presets is unlocked again. See pick below. I can make that more obvious.

image.png (13.81 KiB) Viewed 865 times

[hang12]

That wouldn't exactly be visually pleasing, so maybe I could add a preference to the eDRUMin logo drop down to turn the 'overlay' on and off.

I loaded V2b8 and still had the 2nd eDRUMin firmware upgrade issue with asking for changes made, then the 'OK' and 'Cancel' highlighting and freezing, until I had to quit the window - nowhere else to go. Also no % progress graphics about loading up new firmware for 2nd device. Coming from build 1.6 firmware. Not sure if dev#2 actually upgraded?

UPDATE: I tested some more outside of the debugger and still can not reproduce. What version of macOS are you using?

UPDATE 2: I tested in Big Sur and also was unable to reproduce the issue.

That confirmation control is rock solid for me. I hold the mouse is such a way that it is over 'Upgrade' and 'Cancel' so I can hammer on the control hundreds of time, opening and closing that confirmation over and over looking for it to fail, but always to no avail.

re: Graphics with numbers - I guess I was just thinking of using these -additional- icons for the graphics for the up above 'U' things and not for the overall kit picture down below.
But then again I'm still fuzzy about what you're implementing. I'm simply trying to graphically locate and number all of whatever is in my hardware to my 22 allocated eDRUMin inputs, for quickest reference. If I have 5 toms, and then 4 more pads that (mostly but not always) double as an extra set of toms (on another plug-in instance) as what I call Toms #6 thru #9, what do I label them as?
If I have 8 cymbals and the on screen kit has 7...?
Two snares?
Three foot pedals?
Am I unconcerned with numbers? or placement?

I am still kind of waiting for a -step by step- explanation of how it all works. I'm expecting that 'ah ha' moment to occur any minute now, to see that this v2 approach is exactly what I need.
e.g. how would I use the eDRUM drum map feature to switch between say the core SD3 Yamaha kit layout, to a Battery 4 kit layout (which is laid out kind of linearly, but not as a GM map), to a Roland kit layout - and back to the SD3 core kit?
How do I utilize the current set of factory layouts and then tweak and save them for my own purposes?
Or how do I start from scratch, for a Battery 4 kit since there is no factory patch, because there really isn't a default standard layout?

[btw this is a ubiquitous problem with Alpha and Beta - there is no documentation. It's like getting a book with chapter titles and maybe the inside cover previews, and a note about the author, but the pages inside are blank. I've personally written product specs on the front side, and owner's manuals on the back side, but the launch is always a lot of 'well how intuitive is this?' 'can't you see it?' with a lack of detail. nitty gritty. This is not a pointed criticism either, it is a very common situation.]

re: Mac OS - Mac mini with Sierra 10.12.6. Ancient but it works.
Short of screen shots I can only say this firmware update glitch has happened twice, and I've reported what happens best as I could. The specific system details are in the last crash report I sent you, via your tech support. Yes, #2 says firmware v2.0, so somehow something skips the visual steps that occur like when it is overwriting #1.
I can always re-load 1.6 and start over again. Just reporting what is occurring and I know, if it isn't happening to you then you can't fix it. Maybe the OS is too old to be of any concern. If Apple would only announce and ship a new Mac mini pro, maybe I could report a different OS problem

[Dadwrshpdrum]

Best I can tell how this work. You create (or use a factory preset) MIDI map preset. The editor for setting this up is completely independent from the inputs. The app has a basic kit with a lot of user defined kit elements. You can set up as many or as little as these kit maps. I like how Rob built in the ability to duplicate a map preset, small detail that is useful.

Then when you got to your inputs or pedals you select via the drop down how you want to assign MIDI notes. There is the old way, called note banks and Rob still has the drum maps to help, and then the new way which is the drum map kit piece. The new way allows you to select any drum map kit element to assign to that input. So input one can be a snare for one drum map kit and then a Tom for the next. Plus some inputs can remain note bank so you can use a pedal to flip note banks on the fly, while others are mapped to the drum map kit pieces.

So, I just spent some time this weekend creating SD3 drum maps for Fields of Rock both for two Tom configs and three Tom configs, Gospel EZX and the the core library etc…. With V2 I could have done the same thing within eDRUMin, and left the user presets alone in SD3.

I like the concept of V2. I just haven’t had the time to use the drum map kit pieces since I invested my time in SD3 drum maps instead and SSD5.5. So for me I have a single note bank I use and I based that on Fields of RocK three Tom config. Then all of my SD3 and SSD5.5 user preset drum maps are based off of that single note bank.

[Rob]

re: Graphics with numbers - I guess I was just thinking of using these -additional- icons for the graphics for the up above 'U' things and not for the overall kit picture down below.
But then again I'm still fuzzy about what you're implementing. I'm simply trying to graphically locate and number all of whatever is in my hardware to my 22 allocated eDRUMin inputs, for quickest reference. If I have 5 toms, and then 4 more pads that (mostly but not always) double as an extra set of toms (on another plug-in instance) as what I call Toms #6 thru #9, what do I label them as?
If I have 8 cymbals and the on screen kit has 7...?
Two snares?
Three foot pedals?
Am I unconcerned with numbers? or placement?

I understand your problem. You have so many inputs that even twenty slots in a drum map is not going to cut it. I'll do some math and figure out what the maximum number of kitpieces I can support is. I suspect 32 would be doable.

I could also have pages of kit piece images. As you said, I can have images for Tom1-10, Cym1-10. Stuff like that.

re: Mac OS - Mac mini with Sierra 10.12.6. Ancient but it works.
Short of screen shots I can only say this firmware update glitch has happened twice, and I've reported what happens best as I could. The specific system details are in the last crash report I sent you, via your tech support. Yes, #2 says firmware v2.0, so somehow something skips the visual steps that occur like when it is overwriting #1.
I can always re-load 1.6 and start over again. Just reporting what is occurring and I know, if it isn't happening to you then you can't fix it. Maybe the OS is too old to be of any concern. If Apple would only announce and ship a new Mac mini pro, maybe I could report a different OS problem

I just tested on High Sierra and there is no issue. Can you confirm that the problem only happens when updating a second ED10 connected to the host port of another ED10? Also, I assume you are using a standard mouse?