eDRUMin version 2 Alpha

[Rob]

I’ve read the beginning v2 description of this thread a number of times…but still I am lost. Sorry in advance for the length of what follows here, but this is (~alpha?) beta testing, and I'm probably not covering half of all that I encountered. I definitely appreciate the work that you're putting in, Rob.

You're right. This is more like Alpha testing, and I'll update the description in the thread accordingly. want to go through this process because version 2 is quite different, and I need some feedback so I can make things as clear and simple as possible

So, it seems like there are three input note assignment layers: one is ‘Notes’ which is like v1.6, and then the other two are Drum Map mode layers - one being kind of an individual edit in place for inputs with the drum map kit piece ‘DMKP’ function, and the other being a drum map editor that one gets an overview of all pieces, but won’t be assigned anywhere until it is instantiated/opened? Is this correct?

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2 Layers. There are Notes like in version 1.6, and there's the drum map. The drum map currently loaded on the device can be edited from the input / pedal editor, and drum maps saved in the Preset Manager can be edited from there.

Would it be a good idea to not allow the drum map to be edited from the Input and Pedal Editors? So if an input is set to a Drum Map Kit piece, the note controls will be disable and perhaps some sort of indicator saying that they are being loaded from the Drum Map?

Is there a way to capture my current assignments for what is my very last v1.6 note assignments into a user Drum Map? How do I do that step by step?
If I have two eDRUMin10’s it is a different method?

No, not currently. Perhaps a I could make a tool to extract a drum map from a version 1.6 device preset? Sounds like a lot of work.

When I first open up the v2 app, ‘Superior Drummer Map’ is default map shown. So for the heck of it I tried to create and save a drum map preset and called it ‘my first map’. It showed up in the list, I double clicked it and it then showed up as ‘my first map’ in the upper right hand box. I then clicked on an input icon for the 2nd eDRUMin10 I have and ‘Superior Drummer Map’ showed up. So - if I have two devices are there two (or more) maps currently open or in place? What map applies to what?

If you click on the eDRUMin logo, you can select the option 'Send drum maps to all devices'. Perhaps this should be enabled by default? Otherwise, the map will be sent to the the currently selected device.

So, going from input to input and toggling between the DMKP and Note banks functions, there seems to be a slew of different icons displayed in the upper input boxes that do various things according to either note bank assignment or previous 1.6 assignment or I’m not sure.

If an input is set to DMKP, the an icon associated that kit piece is shown. If it's in note banks, then the icon associated with it's pad type is shown.

But it seems like it would be easier to comprehend if Drum Map Kit Piece -or- Note Banks were global modes, and toggled between the two view aspects, rather than a mixed bag. The icons are familiar but like if my BT-1 icon shows up in one mode, but is a snare icon in the other mode, I can’t quickly figure out what is what for any given bank of 10 inputs, that are mixed mode.
Also, having to ‘one by one’ toggle each of them between layers is quite tedious…

I disagree here. 98% of new users, will simple have their pads set to DMKP and will only use Note Banks if they want to be able to change note assignments with a pedal. They might want to be able to user a pedal to change one or two inputs, but likely not all of them.

When I clicked on my BT-1 XStick input for one of my two BT-1 inputs, and then Drum Map Kit Piece, the icon and name became a Snare. When I go back to Note Banks, it’s a BT-1 icon. Ok, is this because it works according to the SD Map which was showing at the time?

Yes, when setup as a DMKP, it pulls it's icon from the drum map.

Is there a xstick icon available or does it have to show a Snare, or PD-125 mesh sort of icon?

There can be up to 256 different icons. I'll add an x-stick icon.

Aesthetically I think the black or very dark gray cymbals are too black (dark) in the DMKP area.

Agreed. I just wanted to differentiate between the 'Normal' cymbal pads and 'Extra' cymbal pads. I certainly can make them look better.

1) device icon color not kept, when upgrading to 2.0 from 1.6

Thank-you. I will look into that.

Device 2’s MIDI is not showing up in the MIDI monitor.

Thank-you. I noticed that this morning to. It's fixed for the next build.

[Dadwrshpdrum]

It seems like not being able to edit the drum map from the input and pedal editors makes more sense.

It seems like the concept is I can set up every drum kit piece in its own editor, and then I can go to the input or pedal editor to select the drum kit piece.

Being able to do edits in both locations has caused me some confusion. I will look at it some more, but initially after just a bit of time on it. I would prefer to set up my drum map in a standalone editor. Then drop those pieces onto the inputs.

[Rob]

So I can do something like what is shown below, and even change the background color of the note controls to make it even more obvious.

image.png (47.08 KiB) Viewed 1062 times

[hang12]

I’ll respond with broader strokes. Until we were able to see what your vision is/was for v2…there are so many ways to tackle this and it can certainly get too complex, quickly.

You kind of took the kit pieces route, whereas I was asking more for an overall note transposition route. Sort of I just wanted to take all the note number assignment that would be a total PITA in a Roland product, and lay it out in an editable (edible? ) software GUI matrix to just have new mapping for each trigger, in a jiffy, via program change or whatever.

I did a literal count today of what I have assigned via 2 eDRUMin10’s and a TMC-6, if this helps at all to explain my perspective…basically I have 60 articulations to (re-)map (without fudging in the multiple HH articulations via CC, that if I instead had to ‘hard-map’ would add another ~15 articulations).
I need to change those on the fly. It might be just a few articulations, it might be many.

I’m not convinced that ‘cross-mapping via kit piece naming’ is the best way to go, in general, because nothing is exactly the same in this new old/new world of eDrums. The mapping might be close, then a tweak - or 20 - or all of them, but it’s case by case. Individual SD3 libraries need new maps from one another, usually. Especially going from a SD3 to EZDrummer lib, articulations are lessened and redundant. Maybe between VST’s is easier?
e.g. I just purchased the Orchestral percussion library for SD3. Going back and forth between a ‘standard 5 tom’ Yamaha kit to this dual library isn’t going to be best accomplished via kit piece naming. But that’s just the tip of the iceberg because when eDRUMin opened up 3 notes per cymbal and the whole set in general to more expression via sheer numbers, it’s a real mapping challenge to fill in the gaps.

And sometimes the fun part is in the “well, what happens when I just play without transposing, via some map?” And then tweaking. It’s kind of cool to have kettle drums or shakers or whatever mixed in on that right crash cymbal hardware, with three articulations to park a sound in.

'It' might be easier to just simply drop the ‘kit piece naming’ situation, and consider everything under the hood of the eDRUM control app (whatever mix of eDRUMin4’s and eDRUMin10’s) as one big piece. With separate inputs that just need note number changes to point elsewhere. Or maybe kit pieces without name limitations or specific designations. Like naming and placing my current Rack tom 3 in an Xdrum name variable because 'Hi Tom' and 'Low Tom' are the limits...I dunno - make the cookie cutter doesn't work so much for me here, but it certainly might for new users.

Back to one of your questions - probably editing the Maps using only one way, vs two, will make things easier. Since it’s a kit piece naming scheme, I would personally choose the overview as the best means. Or… if I could just tweak the v1.6 interface -and- then save it as part of my current map of interest, then that would be my choice. But you mention that’s not an easy solution.

Color coding in the GUI for displaying individual status, if you end up going in that direction, could make it easier to discern what’s up mode-wise for the individual inputs. A red snare will look a lot different than a gray snare. But turning a BT-1 icon into a XStick icon fwiw - I don’t know - I guess I’m kind of used to thinking that that BT-1 in my kit -is- the Xstick, period. i.e it confuses me to re-think of it as a snare as it has its own dedicated input. Just a bit of unnecessary re-direction in the kit piece naming.

This is all a good hash out. I do have to add that I’ve never had so much fun drumming until I met eDRUMin, matched up with my old Roland hardware, and SD3. The hardware was kind of sitting stale, but it now has a whole new lease on life. There’s a lot more to explore beyond SD3, in all directions.

[Rob]

Until we were able to see what your vision is/was for v2…there are so many ways to tackle this and it can certainly get too complex, quickly.

The mission for v2 is to be able to switch between triggering different applications with the least amount of fuss.

You kind of took the kit pieces route, whereas I was asking more for an overall note transposition route. Sort of I just wanted to take all the note number assignment that would be a total PITA in a Roland product, and lay it out in an editable (edible? ) software GUI matrix to just have new mapping for each trigger, in a jiffy, via program change or whatever.

The GUI editing is certainly possible. Like I've done with the Drum Map Editor, it shouldn't be too hard allow editing the notes of device presets directly from the Preset Manager, complete with drag and drop between inputs and other presets. However, there's absolutely no way to have more than 4 banks of notes on the device--there simply is not enough space for it. Changing all the note assignments on the fly with program changes in not possible. Like in version 1.6, in version 2 you will be limited to 4 banks.

I did a literal count today of what I have assigned via 2 eDRUMin10’s and a TMC-6, if this helps at all to explain my perspective…basically I have 60 articulations to (re-)map (without fudging in the multiple HH articulations via CC, that if I instead had to ‘hard-map’ would add another ~15 articulations).
I need to change those on the fly. It might be just a few articulations, it might be many.

I hear what you are saying, but for 95% of users, this isn't the case. I could possibly increase the number of kit pieces to something like 32. There could be two pages. The first page for standard pieces, and a second page of user defined pieces.

'It' might be easier to just simply drop the ‘kit piece naming’ situation, and consider everything under the hood of the eDRUM control app (whatever mix of eDRUMin4’s and eDRUMin10’s) as one big piece.

Certainly easier to say.

[Rob]

I've posted build 7.

• Made it so maps can only be edited from the Preset Manager.
• I removed the drum map channel setting.
• MIDI Log will now show MIDI from USB host port connected devices.
• Improved the coloring of the extra cymbals.
• Fixed a bug where a device connected to the host port might send its transient even it wasn't selected.

[Dadwrshpdrum]

So I can do something like what is shown below, and even change the background color of the note controls to make it even more obvious.
image.png

Yes this is more clear.

[hang12]

I've posted build 7.

Thanks, will check it out.

After vocalizing (and sleeping on my thoughts), it may just be easier for me to place a Max based transposition patcher in between the eDRUMin’s output and whatever host VST/AU or MIDI ports that need to be fed. I don’t want bloatware anymore than anyone else does, I do understand that -most- users might not need what I want. But as your product becomes more popular, and people are replacing their TD-XX’s with units that can cover triggerring 14-16 inputs, there will be more need for easiest transpositioning, to embrace the AU/VST worlds.

Maybe at some point you can add a back end transposition map on the eDRUMin app (on the summed output of all connected eDRUMin devices). It could allow all the normal note mapping (as is in v1.6) to stay in place, and then recall from the computer (unlimited memory) transposition maps at will. If you’re running the eDRUMin without a computer, you probably don’t need this function anyway. The GUI layout could/would be a (possibly scrollable) grid, and display the myriad transposable output articulations according to the input definitions (channel, number of notes, cc). it could be a kit piece format, or just by the input numbers. i.e. if it’s Tom#4 it has a MIDI channel plus 3 variables. If it is Snare #1, it has 5 variables. And so on. Layout sorted by kit piece type, or device (inputs 1-4, or 1-10). Kit piece view might also show device#/ input# with the other variables.

I’ve needed to create this patcher for a Handsonic 10 for a long while now, regardless. The Handsonic doesn’t have any easy way to do note transposition and all of the target audio apps out there have mixed approaches, or none at all, i.e. fixed note. SD3’s mapping approach is kind of kit piece based, or possibly ‘categorically based’ might be a better term - but it is one of the better implementations. Mine would be a simple grid layout.

[Rob]

What you are asking for is a lot of work, and I don't think I'm willing to go down that route, at least not now. However, below is a pic showing what I would be willing to add for you to facilitate editing note assignments in device presets. Each of the those buttons would be draggable. The green buttons indicate which notes are currently shown in the note controls at the bottom. The reddish buttons represent collections. You could drag and drop a lower level button onto an adjacent or higher level button to copy note assignments. And any button could be dragged into the list of presets that you be off to the left to copy the settings to another preset.

Perhaps in the future I could also support collections of device presets, but here are a couple of potentials issues. If a collection includes two ED10s and two ED4s, how am I to be sure which Device Preset belongs to which physical device. I would need to create a method to uniquely identify each device. Secondly, the Control Application only remembers settings for the currently selected device. I would need tp make a lot of changes to have it remember and manage collections of devices.

image.png (35.34 KiB) Viewed 1032 times

[Dadwrshpdrum]

A few things in the pedal editor.

First, the travel and splash sense is much improved.

Second, I’ve adjusted the Thresh and then select a pad and then came back to pedal editor and Thresh was back to original setting. So it’s not like it is keeping the settings. Looks like the “Fast Stepping Fix” is also not retained when leaving the pedal editor and then returning.

Next, the pedal velocity curve is good, but there is no read out of the velocity. I had to go to the MIDI log to see what velocity the pedal note was.

Lastly, Use Drum Map selection looks the same as the input “Pad Function” “Drum Map Kit Pieces”, but for the pedal editor it is a toggle on/off vs a selection. I would suggest the pedal editor has a similar looking selection as the inputs. That is a drop down selection of “Drum Map Kit Piece” and “Note Banks”. I don’t know about “Record Assist”.

On a different topic on the drum map presets editor, I was confused on the HH. When I select the HH I see levels and CC. How do I know which one will be used by the drum map? Levels or CC?