Jobeky 20" three zone ride -- reverse inputs and edge sensing

[brm@barryrmccann.com]

Just wanted to share an odd experience I've been having, after receiving a set of Jobeky Black Stealth cymbals. The hihat works fine, which was the one I thought would be the most difficult to adjust. Turns out it was the easiest. (I had more trouble with my Roland v-11 -- never actually got the edge working quite right.) The two zone crash cymbals also work pretty well, although the edge gets triggered easily with the bow.

The strangest experience centers on the three zone ride. Just to get it to work, I had to reverse the normal bow/edge jack and the bell jack. I thought maybe Jobeky had wired it wrong, so I tried plugging it into my Roland TD-17 module. It worked perfectly without any adjustment.

Ok. I tried all the cymbal settings in the Edrumin software and found that the Roland 3 zone still works best with the inputs reversed. I have to have bell sensing up to 5, and it misses every once in a while, but it's tolerable.

The biggest issue remains the edge triggering when I'm playing on the bow. I know it's probably all the vibrations of the metal cymbal.

Any ideas? I'm open to using duct tape, lol.

Seriously the input reversal is just weird. Happy to provide specific ride settings if needed.

Setup: Muzzio Element 2 drums. Jobeky Black Stealth 14" HH, 16" and 18" Crashes, 20" Ride. Three eDrumin 4 modules -- one has HH, snare and kick; one all toms; one the two crashes and ride. USB hub into my laptop. SD3 putting through FocusRight Scarlett i4i. Alesis Strike 12 amps.

[Rob]

If you swap the two inputs, are you effectively causing the 'edge' to trigger when you hit the bell of the cymbal, and the 'bell' to trigger when you hit the edge of the cymbal.

Have you tried the 3-zone metal cymbal pad type without swapping the two inputs? That's how it's designed to work. Start with that and then let me know what kind of triggering issues are experiencing from there.

Update: Hard to tell from the language on their website (quoted below), but it looks like the 'bell' might be a switch and not a piezo. It the bell uses a piezo, then the Metal 3-zone cymbal pad type will work best, otherwise use the Roland 3-Zone pad type.

2 Input design features 1. large bell with bell switch, 2. choke switch and piezo trigger for bow

[brm@barryrmccann.com]

Ok. I've played with this a lot over the last week. Here are the facts:

1. The best setting I've found is the Roland 3 zone cymbal, with the following parameters:

Jobeky 3 zone ride.png (85.71 KiB) Viewed 2139 times

2. I still can't get enough separation between the bow and edge. I have to basically play on top of the wiring box containing the piezo bow trigger to get the bow sound. If I play to left or right, I get the edge.

3. The bell is weak, even with bell sensing all the way up to 5.0. I have to hit it on the sensor strip itself to get the bell, and sometimes I don't. I get a combination of bow and edge.

4. If I reverse the inputs, I get nothing. (Sorry -- not sure what was going on before, but the mapping is correct. Bell=bell. Bow/Edge = Bow/Edge. Red herring.)

5. When I plug it into my Roland TD-17, it works perfectly without adjustment. I believe this is a eDrumin software compatibility issue with the Jobeky 3 zone ride. Why it works perfectly with the Roland TD-17 -- I have no idea.

6. The metal 3 zone cymbal doesn't recognize the bell at all and still give the same problem with the bow / edge separation, except I can't get as close as the Roland 3 zone setting without positional sensing.

7. I've asked Jobeky for the wiring specs on the 3 zone ride, but, as expected, they haven't responded. (I also have a broken wire in one of my crash cymbals, the edge trigger.)

[Rob]

I'm willing to work with you on getting to the buttom of this. Let's start with turning off positional sensing. That will not work with metal cymbals. Does that make a difference?

[brm@barryrmccann.com]

Thanks, Rob.

When I turn off positional sensing, I actually get less control between bow and edge. I get better separation when I have it on and defined as in the screen shot, although the position flips to the edge a lot even so.

Happy to provide whatever you need to figure it out. The two zone Jobeky crash does the same, btw.

[Rob]

Keep it off please. Next set your scantime to 2.5ms and hold time to 20ms. Hit your cymbal on the bow and then attach another screenshot.

[Rob]

If you are still running into issues after that, then I would like to sample some data from your cymbal and have a look at what's going on.

1. In the control application, right-click on the eDRUMin logo 5 times, and then left-click on it once.
2. Click the 'Record' button what will appear just above the velocity curve area to start capturing data.
3. Hit the BOW of your pad 5 times.
4. Click the 'Record' button again to stop capturing data.
5. Find the file 'ED_Data.hex' that will appear on your desktop and email it to support at audiofront dot net.

[brm@barryrmccann.com]

Here's the screenshot you requested, which I've also sent with the data file. One is hitting the cymbal a couple inches to the right of the piezo/housing. The other is hitting it dead on the piezo/housing.

Jobeky 3 zone ride 2.5 20 no positional on trigger.png (102.2 KiB) Viewed 2127 times

Jobeky 3 zone ride 2.5 20 no positional 2in right.png (89.73 KiB) Viewed 2127 times

[Rob]

Unsurprisingly, the edge switch is being activated when you are hitting the bow. I could probably make changes to my switch processing to compensate for it, but I have to be careful in not to break things for the vast majority of users who aren't experiencing issues.

[brm@barryrmccann.com]

What I don't understand is why the Roland CY 13 works fine with the TD 17 and Edrumin, but the Jobeky works with the TD 17 but not so well with the Edrumin.

Is it the mix of signal strength, i.e., the software has to figure out which signal to use at a given moment? Would changing to a different combination of piezo and switch system be worth trying? Like a goedrum?

I appreciate your help and know that dealing with every combination of hardware is very difficult.