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DIY Metal Cymbal Design
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:41 pm
by MWJT42
Rob wrote:So I hacked this together today and I've got it working very well. The transition from bow to bell is extremely clear and the bell is also extremely sensitive, with the lightest of hit clearly registering.
The only thing I don't get about these cymbals is why the piezo is in the very front of the cymbal. The hotspotting near the sensor is extremely apparent and annoying. I'm guessing this is because of lack of proper gain on Roland modules? If I was going to be designing one of these cymbals, I'd put the bow piezo in the back. Anyway, I'll definitely have this ready for version 1.3.1.
Amazing Rob, thanks.
Could you define front and back for me though please? Is front near edge, back near bell?
I'm building a new set of LVs (single zone for now) this weekend.
- IMG_20200910_185306.jpg (1.93 MiB) Viewed 1393 times
Just arrived in under 2 weeks, 8 LVs from Alibaba delivered for less than £150! (inc. UPS customs fee)
Super impressed. The LV china is pretty cool.
More DIY Metal Cymbal Design
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:15 am
by Rob
I take back my statement about putting it in the back. Although this does produce nice and even velocity translation, it causes the bell to mistrigger on occasion as that piezo ends up being closer to the impact of the stick.
Re: Zildjian LV converted test
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:24 am
by thenewdrummer
Rob wrote:I take back my statement about putting it in the back. Although this does produce nice and even velocity translation, it causes the bell to mistrigger on occasion as that piezo ends up being closer to the impact of the stick.
Good to know. It makes sense.
Re: Zildjian LV converted test
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:43 am
by AKA Wayne
thenewdrummer wrote:Rob wrote:I take back my statement about putting it in the back. Although this does produce nice and even velocity translation, it causes the bell to mistrigger on occasion as that piezo ends up being closer to the impact of the stick.
Good to know. It makes sense.
I thought that might happen. I’m going to try some different locations. I’m thinking off center, maybe on the right side might work.
Re: Zildjian LV converted test
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:45 am
by Rob
So for any metal cymbal designers out there, I have a design suggestion for your edge switches. Sensitivity on the edge can be tricky, but using Neuton's law of inertia, you can get much better switch response by adding masses underneath the membrane switch. This way, when you hit the edge of the cymbal and it starts swinging, the masses, which want to stay at rest, will help press the switch resulting in a huge improvement in edge response. Here's a crude pic I drew.
- metalCymbal.jpg (41.76 KiB) Viewed 1400 times
Re: Zildjian LV converted test
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:49 pm
by AKA Wayne
Rob wrote:So for any metal cymbal designers out there, I have a design suggestion for your edge switches. Sensitivity on the edge can be tricky, but using Neuton's law of inertia, you can get much better switch response by adding masses underneath the membrane switch. This way, when you hit the edge of the cymbal and it starts swinging, the masses, which want to stay at rest, will help press the switch resulting in a huge improvement in edge response. Here's a crude pic I drew.
metalCymbal.jpg
I’ve used a small strip of foam tape and they seems to help.
Edit: oops I see you’re talking about switches on the bottom. For low volume cymbals I’m ok with them on top.
Re: Zildjian LV converted test
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:34 pm
by Mylo
Rob wrote:So for any metal cymbal designers out there, I have a design suggestion for your edge switches. Sensitivity on the edge can be tricky, but using Neuton's law of inertia, you can get much better switch response by adding masses underneath the membrane switch. This way, when you hit the edge of the cymbal and it starts swinging, the masses, which want to stay at rest, will help press the switch resulting in a huge improvement in edge response. Here's a crude pic I drew.
metalCymbal.jpg
You should throw a new thread in the DIY or Tips and Tricks forum so people can find this easier. It looks like a good idea.
Re: Zildjian LV converted test
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:17 pm
by thenewdrummer
Rob wrote:So for any metal cymbal designers out there, I have a design suggestion for your edge switches. Sensitivity on the edge can be tricky, but using Neuton's law of inertia, you can get much better switch response by adding masses underneath the membrane switch. This way, when you hit the edge of the cymbal and it starts swinging, the masses, which want to stay at rest, will help press the switch resulting in a huge improvement in edge response. Here's a crude pic I drew.
metalCymbal.jpg
Is the membrane on top or under the cymbal?
A lot of DIY metal cymbal I've seen, the membrane was on top with some protection so you can hit it directly.
Your design seem to be under the cymbal. If that's really it, it would be really better since there wouldn't be something in the way of the stick when we hit the cymbal and gives a better feeling.
Am I looking at it the right way?
(I can post it in another thread as suggested by Mylo)
DIY Metal Cymbal Design
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:29 pm
by Mylo
thenewdrummer wrote:Rob wrote:So for any metal cymbal designers out there, I have a design suggestion for your edge switches. Sensitivity on the edge can be tricky, but using Neuton's law of inertia, you can get much better switch response by adding masses underneath the membrane switch. This way, when you hit the edge of the cymbal and it starts swinging, the masses, which want to stay at rest, will help press the switch resulting in a huge improvement in edge response. Here's a crude pic I drew.
metalCymbal.jpg
Is the membrane on top or under the cymbal?
A lot of DIY metal cymbal I've seen, the membrane was on top with some protection so you can hit it directly.
Your design seem to be under the cymbal. If that's really it, it would be really better since there wouldn't be something in the way of the stick when we hit the cymbal and gives a better feeling.
Am I looking at it the right way?
(I can post it in another thread as suggested by Mylo)
It is on the bottom.
It really depends on what look you want. For me... I wanted metal cymbals because I was going for the ultimate acoustic look. Given that requirement I didn’t want any kind of rubber on top of the cymbal protecting a switch. The only other option for the switch is to put it underneath like Jobeky and FIELD. But now it is harder to bend the cymbal to trigger the switch. So there is a trade-off. Rob’s idea looks like it would work. It probably wouldn’t take much. Some thin layers of a heavy metal.
Re: DIY Metal Cymbal Design
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:25 pm
by thenewdrummer
Mylo wrote:thenewdrummer wrote:Rob wrote:So for any metal cymbal designers out there, I have a design suggestion for your edge switches. Sensitivity on the edge can be tricky, but using Neuton's law of inertia, you can get much better switch response by adding masses underneath the membrane switch. This way, when you hit the edge of the cymbal and it starts swinging, the masses, which want to stay at rest, will help press the switch resulting in a huge improvement in edge response. Here's a crude pic I drew.
metalCymbal.jpg
Is the membrane on top or under the cymbal?
A lot of DIY metal cymbal I've seen, the membrane was on top with some protection so you can hit it directly.
Your design seem to be under the cymbal. If that's really it, it would be really better since there wouldn't be something in the way of the stick when we hit the cymbal and gives a better feeling.
Am I looking at it the right way?
(I can post it in another thread as suggested by Mylo)
It is on the bottom.
It really depends on what look you want. For me... I wanted metal cymbals because I was going for the ultimate acoustic look. Given that requirement I didn’t want any kind of rubber on top of the cymbal protecting a switch. The only other option for the switch is to put it underneath like Jobeky and FIELD. But now it is harder to bend the cymbal to trigger the switch. So there is a trade-off. Rob’s idea looks like it would work. It probably wouldn’t take much. Some thin layers of a heavy metal.
It's a very interesting design. It would be ideal to hit directly the cymbal Instead of some kind of rubber. I might try it when I received my eDRUMin. I also need to buy the myrk membrane.
But I Imagine it would need something else than a rubber u channel around the edge to dampen the cymbal, otherwise it won't have the ultimate experience?
