help with 3 zone metal cymbal input

[Ronyd]

I'm embarrassed to say that somehow had it switched to Dual Zone Of course before i saw your post I said WTF.... Can't make this stuff up.

But, I'm glad you posted your build. I hear ya about not needing the Ride as a crash. I figured with Jazz playing, may emphasize the pickup note with a crash. We'll see how things play out with 3 zone. so looks descent right now, but will keep testing.

So i did use a 3D plate i made last week but decided to just attached piezo directly to the bell. I like how you isolated using 4 foam blocks. I may go back to the plate concept. Better isolation for sure.

So the bell piezo is sitting on the plate correct, plate attached to cymbal using bolt/nut?

thankx very much and sorry for taking your time !!

ronyd

[Mr_Bluesguy]

No worries-definitely sounds like something I would have done!
One of the foam blocks is attached to the piezo just as a foam cone would be attached to the snare piezo. The other three provide balanced contact points. The plate is not attached to the cymbal. The plate sits on top of the curved washer on the cymbal stand, and the cymbal merely sits on top of the 4 foam blocks on the plate. Of course you still put felt washers and wing nut on over the bell like any other cymbal.
Sensitivity is awesome and separation is wide and consistent.

[Ronyd]

Aaah ok very slick indeed. Great thought in the design!

Myrk said he was getting more shipments in last week. May want to check his ebay store.

Looking at your gain, looks good. My 27 mm are to hot. I may use a trim pot to calm them down or just go smaller piezos as you.

Thankx for sharing

[Mr_Bluesguy]

Thanks for the kind words and heads up on the Myrk switches. I'll look into it for sure.
Unless you have a trim pot kicking around in your spare parts box, a smaller piezo is cheaper
Also the amount of overhang of the piezo's brass disc on the adhesive, the thickness of the adhesive, and the diameter and position of the adhesive (relative to center) , and various combinations of those things will all have a fairly strong effect on signal strength. In simpler words, the more the disc can bend, the stronger the signal. I don't think 27mm is too large for the signal range edrumin is designed for. I experimented with one on my hi-hat and it definitely wasn't too hot, But then again, could have been the mount method...

[Ronyd]

I use double adhesive foam tape , covering about 2/3 of the brass. Possibly another way is using foam ring attached to cymbal with piezo mounted onto foam. I give that a try Dont know if there’s another method to attach directly to the bell.

I know JMan’s method had piezo sandwiched between foam and cleverly formed a donut that mounted on the cymbal stand like a cymbal felt. Probably a switch.

Have many electronic components and pots, i purchased on close out when radio shack went out of business and i have a local mom and pop electronics store locally here also. Going to mouser or digikey is great but you spend 2 bucks and cost you $12 for shipping… crazy. so i will play around with that also. Even smaller piezo.

If that doesn’t work out, may go back to the plate as you did.

Luv diying and good thing my main kit is acoustic lol. I think the ride is the hardest to pull off. Just got the Hihat to trigger after this (already had my FSR controller working with JMan's trigger (gave the trigger to my buddy), and will be complete. Probably another project box for that also.

What foam are you using, poron or other?

Have a great day!!

[AKA Wayne]

Great discussion guys. I like you bell design. I bet you get more separation from the bow than just sticking a piezo in a 3d printed case stuck to the bottom of the bell. That's what I currently have. Given the edrumin is so amazing it works pretty well. The donut idea sounds good too. I agree the ride is hard. I also love using the edge on my ride for accents so seperation is key. I've got it dialed down pretty well with the edrumin but in my OCD mind there is always room for improvement. Happy drumming!

[Mr_Bluesguy]

Yep. DIY'ing gets to be an obsession, always in search of the e-drum holy grail (whatever your definition is)... the next problem to solve that always SEEMS soooo within reach. Great outlet when your having a creative jones.
To answer the question about foam- for use with mesh heads, I always use the Quartz Percussion cone/piezo combination (Roland style). Really good quality at a very decent price. For cymbals, I have tried high density closed cell black foam available on Amazon in various thicknesses from 1/8" to 3/4", spongy silicone pad 1/2" and 3/4", and gel type pads like you put in your shoes. In my experience, they are all viable and seem to work equally well. It seems that thickness and configuration play more of a role than type. There is no "best" foam for use in e-drums. Just a "best" combination of a foam type, thickness and configuration for a specific mount with specific requirements. It like, gets to be this huge matrix of combinations, and just when you find one that causes a eureka moment, you always wonder if this really is the "best" possible. So on and on you go...
Regarding double sided foam tape for piezo mounting, I used to use it, but switched to double sided adhesive discs (no foam middle layer). This subjectively seems to give a little more sensitivity, as energy is not absorbed in compressing the foam layer. As with everything else, I could be totally up in the night with observations like this. Just my humble experience...
My holy grail is trying to find a way to do 3 zone metal cymbals without switches... what a unicorn that would be
Question- is anyone doing two zone metal hi hats successfully, (with consistent separation) and how are you achieving it?

[Ronyd]

Yes i agree with foam. Tried different types also with good results on my drums using 3 edge triggers.
You know insaid double back foam disc but i think they are what is used to hand pictures etc. gotta check that for sure. Im not playing on the kit that much that foam would have to be replaced. This kit is for later night playing when noise is an issue (WIFE ..lol).

This is first time placing piezo in direct contact with cymbal. So your right possibly still to much flex on it. My 2 zone crashes are using project boxes and smaller piezos.

Myrk had an idea that i never thought about keeping project box small by placing the jacks on the stand. Always tried to figure out to get 2 mini jacks in my mini project boxes. Daaah…

Btw the Myrk switches are available now i checked ebay. i may get the bell switch just to play around with it. I diyed my own choke switches. Not sure about edge switches hut maybe.

Seems quartz cones are the go to. Im sure if i take my oscope out and measure the response i could probably tell, but i dont hear much latency.

Are you using any cymbal guards on edging for dampening?

[AKA Wayne]

I'm doing two zone, edge and bow with perfect seperation but I use a switch. There are ways to create a circuit with a piezo to make it act like a switch but it is difficult and hear not as reliable.

I also made some project boxes that fit two 1/4 jacks. I can share those with you.

[AKA Wayne]

Deleted double post.