Alesis pads too hot?

[LooseSends]

I've spent quite a bit of time trying to get my Alesis Crimson II snare to work will with ED.

I know it's not really "supported" and that's fine, I just wonder if it's something I can DIY my way through. I'm not looking for positional sensing really, just proper articulations and that annoying hotspot that can't be tamed without a lot of sacrifices.

Problem is that 90% of the velocity range happens in only the first 10% of the velocity curve roughly speaking. This results in relatively light strikes on the pad triggering a much harder hit sound (not necessarily just volume) on AD2 samples. So in other words most of the velocity range is compressed and doesn't "map" linearly with the physical strength of the hit.

This isn't much of a problem with toms, but with the snare it requires shelving the last 90% of the curve significantly just to manage the dreaded center hotspot and not have "medium" strength hits trigger absolute slam articulations.

Anyway, I know that Alesis pads aren't really fully supported and from what I've read here I'm assuming that the signal is just too hot perhaps.

Is there a DIY resistor thing I can come up with, or are Alesis pads (snares at least) mostly a lost cause?

[Rob]

Can you post a screenshot of your settings?

[LooseSends]

Sorry for the late response, I haven't been getting notifications from here...

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This might take a brief explanation. The above settings aren't how I would normally approach things but are a result of necessity to tame the overall "hotness" of the signal from this snare. As you can see in the velocity curve of AD for the snare pad, I'm forced to severely limit the range not just due to actual velocity or loudness of the articulation but because of how it maps to the samples themselves.

It's as if the signal is amplified, causing lighter hits to trigger the tonality of harder hits. A modest strike on the snare sounds like a slam hit in the articulation even if the volume itself is limited. As if this is not enough, the Crimson II snare seems to have a severe hotspot of a few inches in the center.

This is why I have the shelving so low which severely limits the range. The above settings makes it...ok...

Is it possible that this snare sends out to much signal and could use a resistor of some sort to bring the signal back in range, or am I totally on the wrong track here?

[Rob]

The title of this thread is "Alesis pads too hot?", yet your gain is set to almost 4x.

The first thing I recommend is to return all your AD settings to default. Because the eDRUMin operates at 10bit vs. 7bit for MIDI, you absolutely get better results be only adjusting the setting in the eDRUMin control application. Furthermore, if you at a later date decide to work with a different software package, you can be confident that you won't need to readjust everything in that application to get things to sound good.

Have you watched my "Transient Scan Controls" video? If you haven't do that first. Your settings mostly look okay, but your gain is set too high, and the velocity curve is likely way off unless you have a very large and very resonant drum pad.

Set your gain so that only hard offset center hits clip the meter, and then use the velocity curve to get the right dynamics. If you pad has hot spotting issues and the hotspot suppression control isn't helping, then I suggest you look at my guide for that.
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=951

[LooseSends]

Thanks for the reply Rob!

I have to say that I have started from scratch twice, have watched the videos, and do understand the transient controls and how they apply. I also understand that it's best to do most of the response curves in ED at the source, before tweaking AD curves. What you are saying makes sense and would be the same advice I would give to someone else.

Lowering the gain makes zero difference to the issue however since the issue is a wide disparity between a hit inside the center 3" and one that's even just outside that circle, along with how it maps too...harshly...to AD's articulation. I'm also familiar with gains, amps and preamps and how they can introduce clipping and distortions when set incorrectly.

I'm not sure how best to explain it, and maybe it's specific to AD, but the strength of a strike should correlate directly with the appropriate articulation that AD maps to the snare hit sample. Harder hits aren't just the same sample only louder, but correlate with the sample recorded being a hard hit on the snare. Yes, lowering the ED gain "should" lower the overall signal being sent to AD for interpretation and bring it back in line, but lowering it to zero doesn't make much difference. The shelving is the ONLY way I've been able (so far) to have, say, a medium strike sound like a medium strike while taming the hotspot, and having some room for quieter articulations. Just that the range is compressed more than I'd like. Oddly enough this setup sounds pretty good in practice, just that it can sound much better having a wider, more natural range.

This is what brings me to sort of conclude that there is some overall issue with the AD seeing too much gain to begin with. That 5 gain doesn't really seem to effect the problem.

Either way, it's good advice, and I will start from scratch again. Maybe I'm just being daft and making assumptions, which has happened before so it certainly won't hurt to blank slate and see. Maybe this time will reveal something I'm missing.

[LooseSends]

I imagine you're rolling your eyes at my long-winded explanations, which you probably expect are missing the point or a lack of understanding about the concepts I'm working from.

But I've just gone from scratch yet again, and ended with the same results of necessitating such a compressed and shelved articulation curve.

It seems that 80% of the articulation range for this CrimsonII snare (full sensitivity - anything less only accentuates these differences) is compressed into the bottom 20% of the available range in AD2.

From the softest hit to the hardest hit is compressed into that bottom 20% of the range. Although the rest of the range is still available, it is wildly over exaggerated. This could normally be tamed by shaping the curve to suit, within the full range, however, with that center hotspot it is way, way too much using the same amount of hit force as only an inch or two outside center.

Now, it may be that I should redo the whole audio chain and that I might be over-boosting the signal overall too early in the signal chain causing the whole kit to be too hot, then perhaps wrestling with the end of the signal chain to try and tame that resultant overboosting which amplifies the hotspot issue. I'm definitely going to start from scratch again to test this and keep a careful eye on the signal chain but it only seems to be affecting the snare, not the other kit-pieces which is why I was inquiring about whether it's possible that the snare itself is sending over-voltage, or something in ED that expects a different range of voltage than it's getting fed?

At the end of the day I can live with this until I get a more "pro" snare, but perhaps you there's a way I can test this voltage theory and perhaps mitigate it with a resistor or something?

[Rob]

You might be able to reduce the hotspotting some by placing a 10K - 30K resistor in series with the tip signal.

[LooseSends]

Thanks, I'll give it a go.

I read on another thread that you have had good luck with the ATV 13" dual-mesh snare.

I'm considering the Lemon 13" snare as I've had good experience with their stuff (and pricing) so I'm wondering if you've had any experience with them. The ATV you mention I don't think uses a centered trigger which probably helps a lot with hotspotting.

[TOP]

Thanks, I'll give it a go.

I read on another thread that you have had good luck with the ATV 13" dual-mesh snare.

I'm considering the Lemon 13" snare as I've had good experience with their stuff (and pricing) so I'm wondering if you've had any experience with them. The ATV you mention I don't think uses a centered trigger which probably helps a lot with hotspotting.

Hi..LooseSend
have u tried lemon 13" snare yet? how bout the positional sensing with ED? Did it good n fully supported? im planning to do the same.. but hav to wait till they available again on my hometown.
i wonder hows the performance compare with maybe ddt 14" snare? had no luck with XP80 FYI
Thanks for ur share, means a lot

[LooseSends]

Thanks, I'll give it a go.

I read on another thread that you have had good luck with the ATV 13" dual-mesh snare.

I'm considering the Lemon 13" snare as I've had good experience with their stuff (and pricing) so I'm wondering if you've had any experience with them. The ATV you mention I don't think uses a centered trigger which probably helps a lot with hotspotting.

Hi..LooseSend
have u tried lemon 13" snare yet? how bout the positional sensing with ED? Did it good n fully supported? im planning to do the same.. but hav to wait till they available again on my hometown.
i wonder hows the performance compare with maybe ddt 14" snare? had no luck with XP80 FYI
Thanks for ur share, means a lot

Hey, sorry I missed this like 6months ago, lol!

No, unfortunately I'm still dealing with the Alesis snare. I'm mostly ok with it right now (still considering investing in a much better snare) but only because I've managed to squish the dynamic range down to a max volume of 50%. It seems to spread out the hotspot and tone it down to usable but not completely natural.

I'm wondering if Alesis pads are generally simply too hot of a signal causing soft hits to sound "harder" than they should for the amount of force, without squishing the range. It seems like 90% of the articulation volume occurs within the first 5-10% and anything beyond sounds harsher than it should.