High Resolution Velocity

[NativeDev]

In a similar manner to how orchestral sample layers are traversed using a 14 bit midi expression value I think it would really set eDrumIn apart to be able to generate high resolution velocity on CC #88 and/or be able to arbitrarily map from this higher resolution range to several standard range velocity midi notes.

Edit: I see in another post you mentioned the hardware is currently only capable of 10 bit velocity sampling. I still think the ability to map several values across this range would make a good feature addition.

[Rob]

7bit velocity layers are definitely sufficient for drumming applications, and I don't know of any drumming applications that support more than that. If at some point MIDI 2.0 takes off and enjoy mass adoption, I might consider implementing 10bit velocity layers, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

[NativeDev]

Sure drumming applications have programs with layers that only respond to 127 values individually but this an area where the dynamic range of modules with onboard sound generation are still winning out and they shouldn't be. In SD3, in practice we are all layering snare programs that can be triggered from different note values in the software but running up against the 7 bit velocity limit whereas we could benefit by mapping each program to potentially overlapping different note values to achieve greater dynamic range across and improved blending between custom layered programs.

Can you recommend a solution for splitting a trigger input to two different modules without reducing the impedance? Will a buffered thru pedal work?

[Rob]

Sure drumming applications have programs with layers that only respond to 127 values individually but this an area where the dynamic range of modules with onboard sound generation are still winning out and they shouldn't be.

I don't think anyone would agree that modules provide a greater dynamic range than software samplers. Certainly, no would would suggest that modules produce a 'better' sound than software samplers.

[NativeDev]

They obviously don't distill their signal to 7 bits before triggering the program, Rob. The reason I am using SD3 is because I would tend to agree with you but I don't think that applies across the board. I would be using the Pearl eMerge with +4 db outputs in place of my current setup with the Studio Kit onboard sounds if I wanted to blow my entire audio budget on drums but given the snideness of this response, I think I'll dump my AF products and do just that.

[Rob]

Hi NativeDev,

I wasn't looking to offend anyone, I was just saying that people tend to use software samplers on their computers because they feel that the software samplers 'sound better'. And you're right, that's a generalization that doesn't hold true across the board, especially when you consider the subjective nature of 'sounds better'.

[Rob]

I looked into implementing high resolution velocity, and it's seems to be pretty trivial and backwards compatible. I'll put that my list of things to do. In case you were wondering, the Superior Drummer 3 standard library has a maximum of 25 velocity layers / kit piece, the Mimic Pro has up to 28.

[MisterE]

They obviously don't distill their signal to 7 bits before triggering the program, Rob. The reason I am using SD3 is because I would tend to agree with you but I don't think that applies across the board. I would be using the Pearl eMerge with +4 db outputs in place of my current setup with the Studio Kit onboard sounds if I wanted to blow my entire audio budget on drums but given the snideness of this response, I think I'll dump my AF products and do just that.

I don't believe higher resolution is the answer to more realistic edrums or VSTs at present. Try this experiment. Write Midi notation with velocity note values that are 5 velocity values apart for a couple measures, then 4, then three, then two, then one. Listen carefully and honestly let us know where you can sense the difference in those velocity values. I expect that few among us can tell the difference between a value of 62 and 65, for example, let alone 62 and 61. Even if those two values impart some sort of tonal variation, the more important thing is the quality of those samples and their qualitative differences for those differences to be useful or meaningful, let alone detectable.

That said, I'm not arguing that higher resolution isn't, in general, advantageous. My point is that it's more important to get high quality sound design achieved first, and incredible realism can be achieved with 127 values. Most modules and even VSTs haven't even yet taken advantage of all 127 velocity values at this point. I think the 127 values we are now limited to is under-utilized, and higher resolution will provide little benefit in the foreseeable future unless good sound engineers and sound designers spend the time getting it right.

[mprinz]

Hi!

I expect that few among us can tell the difference between a value of 62 and 65, for example, let alone 62 and 61. Even if those two values impart some sort of tonal variation,

As mentioned by Rob and you, there are 25 velocity layers in SD3 that means every 5 values up the layer should switch, so
the limiting factor is not the midi resolution but the samples velocity layers. But I don't think that you will need more that 25 layers for
a percussive instrument. I would state that you need more samples per velocity layer.
For 25 layers, I am already wondering how the drummer can separate 25 hit-intensities.

I mean, I got the cheap Medeli/FAME pads here and together with Robs gorgeous piece of gear I can generate velocities from 5 to 127.
I think that is more dynamic than I've ever played on a real, acoustic kit.

The input settings are important. I set the input like to a value, where I get the 127 only on the hardest hits.
And a mess around with the velocity curves. Basically the mesh pads get a little boost at lover velocities.

And then I do further vel-curves adjustments in depence of the SD3 library.
So, a metal drummer will distribute the 25 intensities in a different way than a jazz-ish drummer.
And I am really fine with a resolution of 127.

Greetings

[MisterE]

Hi!

I expect that few among us can tell the difference between a value of 62 and 65, for example, let alone 62 and 61. Even if those two values impart some sort of tonal variation,

As mentioned by Rob and you, there are 25 velocity layers in SD3 that means every 5 values up the layer should switch, so
the limiting factor is not the midi resolution but the samples velocity layers. But I don't think that you will need more that 25 layers for
a percussive instrument. I would state that you need more samples per velocity layer.
For 25 layers, I am already wondering how the drummer can separate 25 hit-intensities.

I mean, I got the cheap Medeli/FAME pads here and together with Robs gorgeous piece of gear I can generate velocities from 5 to 127.
I think that is more dynamic than I've ever played on a real, acoustic kit.

The input settings are important. I set the input like to a value, where I get the 127 only on the hardest hits.
And a mess around with the velocity curves. Basically the mesh pads get a little boost at lover velocities.

And then I do further vel-curves adjustments in depence of the SD3 library.
So, a metal drummer will distribute the 25 intensities in a different way than a jazz-ish drummer.
And I am really fine with a resolution of 127.

Greetings

I completely agree with your points as well. In regards to my reply, just for clarity I was more relating to ones ability (or lack thereof) to distinguish minute sound amplitude differences as a result of velocity values very close to one another, as opposed to tonal differences imparted by the sample pool layers. Your point is well taken. Good stuff. Nice chatting with you.