Transforming my acoustic kit into electronic using edrumin 10

[monospace]

I am not interested in dual triggering functionality on my converted toms. It only takes me 2 E10 inputs for my 3 toms and kick. That leaves me 8 more inputs!! I also use a hosted E4!! With the luxury of so many inputs I find myself constantly adding cymbals and auxiliary pads. It's a sickness, really.

I've had my ED10 and ED4 for about a year now and it's caused me to greatly expand my kit. Curses, Rob!
But I don't know why it never occurred to me until reading the above that I actually have room for 4 more toms if I switch my existing tom inputs to mono and just use Edge Sense. Curses, again!

EDIT: Hold up, hold up, and if I forego the bell sound on my crash cymbals, I can actually have 5 ADDITIONAL CYMBALS AS WELL? Jeepers creepers! Nobody tell my wife.

[javiercarrillo]

Thank you for all the comments and info, guys!

Since this is my first time doing an A2E conversion, I am going to try some "cheap" triggers and see how it goes (I am going with the 2box TriggerIt Triggerset). If they don't work as nice, I might try to upgrade to nice/more accurate triggers.

I am planning to use the snare that came with the Mapex Tornado I am planning to convert, so that'd be a 14inch snare. I am now getting concerned if the triggering will be good since it's a relatively "biggish" size... however (and maybe that's the beauty of this?), customising a kit gives me the chance to expand/change/adapt as needed.

I must confess that this whole project looks a bit daunting (to me, at least). For moments I was going back to the Thomann website and thinking "aaah, maybe I should just get one of those Alesis or Millenium kits". However (and I hope I'm not wrong), I think this is going to be a fun project too.

[javiercarrillo]

Also, Rob, if you read this, it'd be awesome to hear what your thoughts are on these "attachable" triggers (like the Red Shots). I hear from folks that they mostly work but, are they officially (or even semi-officially) supported by eDRUMin? Or, it's kind of uncharted territory?

[Ratamacue]

I use Red Shot on my toms and like them. See a review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ta4qSSjBLg

I can confirm that edumin works very will with Red Shots and Roland RT-30H, RT-30HR, and RT-30K. The Rolands are build like a tank and will hold up better. Even though I own the Rolands they do not work well with 1-ply heads, only because the 1-ply stretches more and the drum hoop seats too far down.

If you want positional sensing on the snare, you'll need the sensor and cone located inside the shell and in the center. Otherwise a dual zone side trigger is great.

I started DIY triggering in 2003 and virtually everything I did worked VERY well. So, I wouldn't be shy about moving forward. What didn't work well was dependability and consistent triggering. In the early days I was constantly breaking piezos sensors and I had dropped notes occasionally. Edrumin is the best trigger-to-midi interface I have ever owned. I even owned the Simmons TMI interfaces back in the 80s. So, with patience I am confident you can set up your triggers using edrumin.

[javiercarrillo]

I use Red Shot on my toms and like them. See a review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ta4qSSjBLg

I can confirm that edumin works very will with Red Shots and Roland RT-30H, RT-30HR, and RT-30K. The Rolands are build like a tank and will hold up better. Even though I own the Rolands they do not work well with 1-ply heads, only because the 1-ply stretches more and the drum hoop seats too far down.

If you want positional sensing on the snare, you'll need the sensor and cone located inside the shell and in the center. Otherwise a dual zone side trigger is great.

I started DIY triggering in 2003 and virtually everything I did worked VERY well. So, I wouldn't be shy about moving forward. What didn't work well was dependability and consistent triggering. In the early days I was constantly breaking piezos sensors and I had dropped notes occasionally. Edrumin is the best trigger-to-midi interface I have ever owned. I even owned the Simmons TMI interfaces back in the 80s. So, with patience I am confident you can set up your triggers using edrumin.

So, positional sensing WILL NOT work with side-mounted triggers? (apologies if question is too basic. I'm a noob on this thing)

[javiercarrillo]

I use Red Shot on my toms and like them. See a review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ta4qSSjBLg

I can confirm that edumin works very will with Red Shots and Roland RT-30H, RT-30HR, and RT-30K. The Rolands are build like a tank and will hold up better. Even though I own the Rolands they do not work well with 1-ply heads, only because the 1-ply stretches more and the drum hoop seats too far down.

If you want positional sensing on the snare, you'll need the sensor and cone located inside the shell and in the center. Otherwise a dual zone side trigger is great.

I started DIY triggering in 2003 and virtually everything I did worked VERY well. So, I wouldn't be shy about moving forward. What didn't work well was dependability and consistent triggering. In the early days I was constantly breaking piezos sensors and I had dropped notes occasionally. Edrumin is the best trigger-to-midi interface I have ever owned. I even owned the Simmons TMI interfaces back in the 80s. So, with patience I am confident you can set up your triggers using edrumin.

So, positional sensing WILL NOT work with side-mounted triggers? (apologies if question is too basic. I'm a noob on this thing)

Answering myself, apparently side-triggers "might" be able to offer positional sensing... in some special conditions, like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB1VslJnXjE

[Ratamacue]

Answering myself, apparently side-triggers "might" be able to offer positional sensing... in some special conditions, like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB1VslJnXjE

This is a "Rob question" as he has clearly figured out the math for positional sensing and hotspot suppression. My hunch has always been that a drum requires both rim sensing and a center mounted piezo for it to be a candidate for positional sensing. The position of the strike on the head is triangulated by comparing data received from both sensors. If the signal ratio (center/rim) is high, it is assumed the center of the drum is being struck. As the signal ratio falls, it is assumed that the stick strike is getting closer to the rim area.

Starting in 1997 moving forward, Roland modules have required center mounted sensors to support positional sensing. I don't know if that has changed with Roland's digital snare and ride. Now, Rob seems to have introduced algorithms that can discriminate between different profiles of transients on a single pad to trigger different voices. Indeed, "bell sense" is positional sensing of sorts because it does so with just one input. Even still, the documentation for eDRUMin clearly states: "eDRUMin supports positional sensing for pads using the ‘Mesh Center Piezo’ Pad Type."

I recommend fitting your accoustic snare with a center-mounted sensor. I believe there are conversion kits available for acoustic drums to accomplish this at reasonable prices.

[javiercarrillo]

Answering myself, apparently side-triggers "might" be able to offer positional sensing... in some special conditions, like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB1VslJnXjE

This is a "Rob question" as he has clearly figured out the math for positional sensing and hotspot suppression. My hunch has always been that a drum requires both rim sensing and a center mounted piezo for it to be a candidate for positional sensing. The position of the strike on the head is triangulated by comparing data received from both sensors. If the signal ratio (center/rim) is high, it is assumed the center of the drum is being struck. As the signal ratio falls, it is assumed that the stick strike is getting closer to the rim area.

Starting in 1997 moving forward, Roland modules have required center mounted sensors to support positional sensing. I don't know if that has changed with Roland's digital snare and ride. Now, Rob seems to have introduced algorithms that can discriminate between different profiles of transients on a single pad to trigger different voices. Indeed, "bell sense" is positional sensing of sorts because it does so with just one input. Even still, the documentation for eDRUMin clearly states: "eDRUMin supports positional sensing for pads using the ‘Mesh Center Piezo’ Pad Type."

I recommend fitting your accoustic snare with a center-mounted sensor. I believe there are conversion kits available for acoustic drums to accomplish this at reasonable prices.

Thanks, Ratamacue. Indeed, I think this is a "Rob question" and it's clear that, "officially", the eDRUMin supports positional sensing only on center piezos.

Since I am getting my side triggers as a set (big discount for 5 of them), I am going to see how they work (who knows, maybe I manage to pull the hack the other guy in the video is doing - with the tennis ball under the mesh). If not, I might look into getting a Jobeky trigger for my snare.

I've even thinking that I might track to "hack" the side trigger and convert it into a center piezo trigger.

[Ratamacue]

I've even thinking that I might track to "hack" the side trigger and convert it into a center piezo trigger.

javiercarrillo, you will certainly learn a lot about triggering technology if you do. Much has been written on DIY edrum forums on how to accomplish what you want. The learning journey is well worth it. I have spent decades tinkering with mostly good results. In the end, I found that I couldn't beat the precision and durability of professional pads. But we all build our kits over time, and you will get good results with budget equipment very quickly.

Also note that many people find positional sensing to be over-hyped. With the side trigger you get velocity-sensitive "snare center" and "rim shot" possibilities on the same drum which represents the most common articulations for snare.

[javiercarrillo]

I've even thinking that I might track to "hack" the side trigger and convert it into a center piezo trigger.

javiercarrillo, you will certainly learn a lot about triggering technology if you do. Much has been written on DIY edrum forums on how to accomplish what you want. The learning journey is well worth it. I have spent decades tinkering with mostly good results. In the end, I found that I couldn't beat the precision and durability of professional pads. But we all build our kits over time, and you will get good results with budget equipment very quickly.

Also note that many people find positional sensing to be over-hyped. With the side trigger you get velocity-sensitive "snare center" and "rim shot" possibilities on the same drum which represents the most common articulations for snare.

Ratamacue, thanks so much for the words of motivation, insight, and also information about "snare center" and "rim shot". For someone like me who is starting in the electronic drum world, this is really very useful!

I had read indeed that positional sensing might be not only be "not so important" but also bring issues with hot-spotting. What I did not know is the benefits of the side trigger in terms of possibilities for snare center and rim shot (the reason why I was going with side triggers was mainly that I got a set for cheap and that they were easy to install, hehe).

Thanks!!!